A random sentence for a random mind.

Will there be any more contests? [Poll added]

For discussion about UnrealSP.org itself.

Moderators: Semfry, zYnthetic, ividyon

In a new USP mapping contest, would you like to see 227 features put to use?

Poll ended at 08 Mar 2013, 23:39

Entries should be allowed to use new 227 features
9
56%
Entries must be compatible with all platforms (224)
7
44%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar UnrealGecko
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 146
Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 10:01
Location: Lithuania

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 03 Nov 2012, 05:46

We are discussing this at ut99.org about this. I even made a poll since there were way to many opinions: http://www.ut99.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t ... 04501474c9
As for an SP contest, how about a ''anything other than Na-Pali'' contest. Be original and build a small SP somewhere else: on Earth, Mars, outer-space and etc. But NOT NaPali.
Deep cover GEcko!
My work for UT99: Counter-Strike VP, DM-XC-NaliTreeV2 (from the ut99.org Xmas Contest mappack)

User avatar Delacroix
News Editor News Editor
Posts: 828
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 17:22
Location: Poland.ut3

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 01:28

Stuff from today's IRC convo in a nutshell:

Ideas:

- the idea of stock content is generally favored, or so it seems. UBerserker and I agreed that it should not be limited to mere Unreal files though. As long as they don't break compatibility between Unreal/Gold/Tournament, the Return to Na Pali and Tournament files should be allowed (so no UPak or BotPack, but yes, you'd be free to use Castle1 from RTNP or Crypt2 from UT or any of the umx/uax/utx files that are supplied with these three products). The idea is to avoid limiting creativity while keeping compatibility. Bottom line: stock Unreal/RTNP/Tournament content (umx, uax, utx).

- if someone participates, they wouldn't be judging and vice versa. Despite the fact that last time around a judge wasn't able to rate their own map, it felt 'weird' as UB put it. I'd call it outright a conflict of interest. So if you're thinking about participating and judging -- it'd be better that you participate, at least more content is made. Judges will always pop up, don't worry about that.

- even though it'd be most likely a 'Speedmapping' contest, I guess it's fair to say that especially for first-time mappers there should be a reasonable amount of time. This would kill the eventual need to extend the deadline ad nauseum. There were suggestions ranging from 4 through 8 to 10-12 weeks. I'd say that three months is sufficient to complete a map properly.

- It seems the idea of Unreal version 224 as a target compatibility platform is favoured. A map would work on Unreal updated to that version or higher, Return to Na Pali and Unreal Tournament without issues.

Problems:

- Why no custom content?

To make the chances even. You don't get a head start just because apart from mapping you are a master texturizer, coder or musician. By having to stick to stock content, you are limited to only one skill: mapping, which is what's the contest all about! And it'd make comparing entries easier for the judges, too.

- If no custom code, can I modify monsters for example?

YES. Unreal's own readme has a tutorial that tells you to screw with monsters' properties once they're placed on map. The no custom code rule won't let you save this as a subclass though.

- If so, how can I spawn the monster? I don't want it placed, I want it to appear later ingame. (UB's concern)

Improvise! You can't make a subclass because of a no-custom-code rule, but you can place it somewhere else and have it teleported. (My answer)
Image
I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

User avatar Raven
Trustee Member Trustee Member
Posts: 807
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 09:39
Location: Nørresundby
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 12:13

Would be nice to have 227 only contest :)
Madness, as you know, is like gravity…all it takes is a little push!
Image
http://turniej.unreal.pl/portfolio

User avatar UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7658
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 12:20

Unreal 224 is definitely the best choice, though I'm expecting people to at least use 225 and onwards? 224 or 225, it doesn't really matter, as long as the maps can be played on almost all platforms, I'm perfectly fine. And that's simple to do.

Dela I was just going to ask you which kind of RTNP content you were talking about but you mentioned texture/sound/music files only which is good. Just remind myself that UPak.u is... is what it is. Too bad that Spinners had to be in that package.
Image

User avatar SteadZ
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 786
Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 10:52
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 17:10

So there will be another contest then?
Image
Image

User avatar Delacroix
News Editor News Editor
Posts: 828
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 17:22
Location: Poland.ut3

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 17:14

It's up to sana ultimately, he's the boss of this site. But if we approach him like on IRC and ask him nicely...
Image
I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

User avatar ividyon
Administrator Administrator
Posts: 2271
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 14:43
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 18:10

I can't say I agree with the suggested ideas so far; keeping things compatible with 224/UT99 not only disables people from fully exploring their creativity with the new tools, features and comfort provided by the OU patch, but also gives zero support to the 227 project itself, which could REALLY use some exclusive projects and high-quality content that fully makes use of what it brings to the table. I am fully in favor of ditching UT99 compatibility (something that is only relevant due to UT99 co-op servers, which shouldn't be enough of a force to impact such a decision) to help out the largest, most influential project in the Unreal community...
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

ImageImage

User avatar UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7658
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 18:15

That would suck.
I'd rather wish for the contest to cover all platforms instead of focusing on only one. Otherwise, this would mean whoever has more experience with script and 227 tools would win much easily. Won't join if that's the case, which makes me sad because I was looking forward to join a new contest done in almost the same way as the previous one.
Last edited by UBerserker on 20 Feb 2013, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar ividyon
Administrator Administrator
Posts: 2271
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 14:43
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 18:17

That sort of thinking is why there is a problem with the "contest" scheme in itself because the focus has never been, and shouldn't be winning or losing (a fact certain participants in the last contest did not grasp), but rather to keep the community alive by creating fresh content.
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

ImageImage

User avatar Delacroix
News Editor News Editor
Posts: 828
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 17:22
Location: Poland.ut3

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 18:31

Well, there's plenty platforms that would deserve recognition as potential requirements. 227 is one, but there's also another, EXU2. There could be an EXU2-only contest, but again, that would LIMIT creativity and would further divide the mapping scene as well as players. Having a map compatible with all versions and a classic gameplay style will benefit both Unreal and UT communities alike, having a 227-only map will not. The new toys that arrive in 227 aren't worth dividing the community.

Also, the entire idea of a contest is to compete, and it's been so in 8th and 10th anniversary contests. To engage people into mapping via a friendly competition. I disagree about avoiding the contest -- it worked well twice already so why avoid a proven and effective solution?
Image
I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

User avatar ividyon
Administrator Administrator
Posts: 2271
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 14:43
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 20:05

Delacroix wrote:The new toys that arrive in 227 aren't worth dividing the community.


Think the opposite way; 227, being the newest Unreal-related patch and coming DIRECTLY from the community itself, is the closest thing worth uniting under as complete community. We should be united under a single platform rather than forced to deal with the hassle of serving a thousand different ones. A 227-centric event would work towards that goal of supporting Smirftsch and co's sentiments as well as getting people interested/compelled to install/use 227, bringing more people under the same umbrella...
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

ImageImage

User avatar ebd
Trustee Member Trustee Member
Posts: 429
Joined: 05 Apr 2008, 19:08
Contact:

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 20:11

sana wrote:That sort of thinking is why there is a problem with the "contest" scheme in itself because the focus has never been, and shouldn't be winning or losing (a fact certain participants in the last contest did not grasp), but rather to keep the community alive by creating fresh content.
This.
Delacroix wrote:Also, the entire idea of a contest is to compete, and it's been so in 8th and 10th anniversary contests. To engage people into mapping via a friendly competition. I disagree about avoiding the contest -- it worked well twice already so why avoid a proven and effective solution?
imho it hasn't worked well before. Never should judges have to step on eggshells just to avoid drama. Never should potential participants back out because they don't feel they have a chance at winning, nor should community heavyweights feel pressured not to compete just because they are "too good". "friendly competition" is a myth. As long is it can be won people will want to win.

imo mapping isn't some Olympic event to be done in a vacuum. Many of us who are weaker with the editor have other skills (modeling, programming, whatever) and being able to use those skills in some cases means could mean the ability to participate. Having some restrictions regarding abstract concepts like theme are a different matter (a single theme can be interpreted many ways). Limits on the skills that can be used hamstrings individuals who do not possess mastery over your idealized skill set.

User avatar UnrealGecko
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 146
Joined: 26 Aug 2012, 10:01
Location: Lithuania

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 21:31

I want a contest, a map-off, a... anything, I'd try to cook something up, but all I ask is to NOT make it Unreal only.
Deep cover GEcko!
My work for UT99: Counter-Strike VP, DM-XC-NaliTreeV2 (from the ut99.org Xmas Contest mappack)

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
Posts: 1964
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 07:21
Location: Riding my bicycle from the highest hill in Sydney to these forums

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 21:39

The "stock content only" along with no scripting and modeling and whatnot limited creativity completely and utterly in the last contest, regardless of the platform. While I enjoyed every entry and loved marvelling at how the participants managed to use stock content, the actual churnout was nothing compared to the 8th anniversary contest (with the exception of Triamid). Compare TLF, Enslaved, ISV Dragonfly to the results of the last contest.

I'm all for a 227 only contest. I want to see what it can do in more than just tech demos and deathmatch maps. What is this dividing the community crap? Anyone who's immature enough to actually let the community be divided over something so small deserves to leave! :lol: I can't stand so many things about unreal 227 compared to oldskool. The menu, the way the weapons are rendered, the physics, the ease of customisation.... But I'm sick of letting complaints about such petty things get in the way of what is in the end, a fun game. I'm keen for some real 227 meat to chew on. Show me what you've got community.
ImageIgnorance is knowing anything
And only idiots know everything

User avatar Buff Skeleton
>:E >:E
Posts: 4104
Joined: 15 Dec 2007, 00:46

Subject: Re: Will there be any more contests?

Post Posted: 20 Feb 2013, 22:18

TheIronKnuckle wrote:The "stock content only" along with no scripting and modeling and whatnot limited creativity completely and utterly in the last contest, regardless of the platform. While I enjoyed every entry and loved marvelling at how the participants managed to use stock content, the actual churnout was nothing compared to the 8th anniversary contest (with the exception of Triamid). Compare TLF, Enslaved, ISV Dragonfly to the results of the last contest.

I'm all for a 227 only contest. I want to see what it can do in more than just tech demos and deathmatch maps. What is this dividing the community crap? Anyone who's immature enough to actually let the community be divided over something so small deserves to leave! :lol: I can't stand so many things about unreal 227 compared to oldskool. The menu, the way the weapons are rendered, the physics, the ease of customisation.... But I'm sick of letting complaints about such petty things get in the way of what is in the end, a fun game. I'm keen for some real 227 meat to chew on. Show me what you've got community.


I won't participate in any contest (for obvious reasons; too busy), but I think this is pretty much correct. Although I would recommend against making it 227-only. I think it's best for the community if the mappers are allowed to do whatever they feel comfortable doing. The only "contest" should be focused on actually producing a finished product within the time allotment rather than having to request extensions or falling short before the end. Time management and planning is the biggest difference between success and failure, not platform or content constraints.

Maybe this next contest should have a mandatory one-week planning phase? You MUST submit a plan, and your plan submission counts as your signup for the contest. This gives people time to work on a plan publicly (if they wish) and get comments from other people to see how sustainable their idea is for however many weeks there are for development.
Image

Previous Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests