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27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Each week a single map is discussed here in detail.

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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:16

UBerserker wrote:Possibly three greenhouses per floor - the underground one with the toxic waste and the second floor one over the mountain which is open to the sky. Then from outside none of the greenhouses are shown open.
I can't even imagine how the full Terraniux would truly look like but <INOXX>.


This is a quote from Inoxx? Interesting. It also brings up another point we all argued about, the tops being sealed outside but inside you can see the sky. I think it goes back to the "is it just a set piece for when you look up from outside?" thought process. I personally like the idea that the Terraniux is a series of sections, be them a vertical set of floors like say how Umbrella's labs are in the Resident Evil movies or separate enclosed hubs with their own wings, not all of them above ground. Sometimes it's better not to try to figure the logistics and go along with things, which is why I dismiss questions about why there is a temple underneath the Temple of Vandora in the same pack or why the Kran has a fifth floor that wasn't there in Unreal (isn't on the cross-section map of the vessel, has a lift entrance in the big cylinder room that wasn't there before, and this smaller floor was clearly made by Terrans). Bigger conundrums if you ask me, and I have fewer answers for them as I do this :)

UB wrote:I don't know what to say about the bot thing.
In Single Player you can die only once.
The "no strategy" thing about Jonas is that you confront him in an empty room where he can shoot you anywhere so it's just seconds until the battle ends. Unless you put up some really insane strategy by falling into the water and waiting until you can snipe him.


I think in beta testing everyone backed up and lured him outside, where they often did just what you said. It seemed more action movie dramatic. I believe this is why I made sure the room you encounter him has no crates. Kinda wanted to put the trust in players on how to handle that one. But my point is just that you have options. You can fight him there as the player did in the video also. Chaingun or no Chaingun, the player character is the biggest hitscan cheapskate in the campaign.

UB wrote:Seven Bullets' terrans have nothing on Unreality's bot matches. Unreality has crabs who resist 4-5 flak shells in the face.


I should say that I bring that pack up not to compare to Seven Bullets in how they were used, but because they were similar enemies. All I meant. I don't think most Unreal players are really thrilled to see bot-like enemies in their SP games. In every review written on the site when present they are mentioned with (at best) trepidation, if they are not listed amongst that map/pack's shortcomings.

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I talk too much. I want to see Waffnuffly speak about his map and his point of view as the only remaining mapper of Seven Bullets besides myself who still frequents the forums. This was, as I recall, a big mapping experiment for him in terms of getting better at Unreal ED and using Terrain. I remember many conversations with him where he was very cheerful about how this was coming along.
Last edited by Mister_Prophet on 28 Oct 2014, 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:18

No Proph it wasn't an Inoxx quote lol
I just wanted to point out that the same person who made the Terraniux has done the Mothership.

salsaSkaarj wrote:
UBerserker wrote:Jonas is the pirate you kill at the end of this map. He has a Chaingun.

You mean the one which was killed by the double enforcers in rapid fire? That didn't seem so difficult.


Until you figure that out, yeah. You have approximately 2 seconds to think and react, still.

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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:21

Actually about the ISV-Kran 3 and 2 map, once in development it was supposed to have an additional floor, below the regular one with the corridors that lead you to other places of the ship.
You remember that closed hole on the ground blocked with glass, near the exit? There were two of them in the Unreal beta ver and there was once a screenshot of a floor being shown from below there.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:24

Well I'd like to say I knew that when I made the 7B versions, but I can't :o. It was more, "Will people remember that this wasn't here? Nah."
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:43

UBerserker wrote:
salsaSkaarj wrote:You mean the one which was killed by the double enforcers in rapid fire? That didn't seem so difficult.


Until you figure that out, yeah. You have approximately 2 seconds to think and react, still.


That's probably why I can't remember it. I usually open a door and immediately retreat, and then probably loaded 6 rockets for when he came out. I guess that's my lucky strategy.

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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 00:35

Oh shit this map was fun to make. I only wish I had the skill I do now with SGTech and stuff when I was building it originally since I could have made some of the uglier parts a lot better looking.

I remember there was even going to be some kind of pirate arena somewhere, and some other shit, but we had to scrap it. I also distinctly remember my original map was a COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT and I basically rebuilt it entirely once I saw the other 7B maps, because I was just like, fuck man, I CANNOT let my steaming green turd be the glue that holds together two bricks of awesomecrete. The original map had almost nothing but a couple of catwalks, some toxic barrel thing, and a lump of Terraniux geo. Then a cave exit and the end. It was traaaaaaaash.

I ended up increasing the full size of the map about 10 times and what you have is what's here. Also, Proph's chunk is the best thing in the map because I lose my shit laughing every time that radio cutscene plays.

I was also glad to finally find a home for the stealth tank I made ages before, and even though it's pretty primitive, it still has a pretty decent shape. The fight in there was fun to make, too. I spent hours figuring out the best crate configurations to facilitate hiding places for you and the enemies, and items. And of course eastereggs. Anyone find all 7 brutes?

I also thought this map had a more interesting theme than planned as well, and one not seen often in games as it is - a location with a very specific and infrastructural purpose: water purification. Everywhere you look, you see huge amounts of water processing supplies and equipment and chemicals in storage. Usually it's Generic Industrial Base #4 but I wanted to make this feel like something more purpose-built.

I can't even remember the last time I played this, let alone when we built it. What year was this shit all released? Christ it's probably over a decade old now.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 02:18

salsaSkaarj wrote:That video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERR7FQfa8gM) was uploaded by a Forsete so I can reasonably suspect that he's the one playing.
I wonder what difficulty level he's playing on, it seems too fast for Medium but damage by the humans seems too low for Hard.


Yeah, I played on Medium when I recorded that video. It's pretty much the standard difficulty for me when playing Unreal mods and map packs.

And about the map... definitely my personal favourite from the mod. Amazing visuals. :tup:

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 02:43

BUFF SKELETON wrote:
I remember there was even going to be some kind of pirate arena somewhere, and some other shit, but we had to scrap it. I also distinctly remember my original map was a COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT and I basically rebuilt it entirely once I saw the other 7B maps, because I was just like, fuck man, I CANNOT let my steaming green turd be the glue that holds together two bricks of awesomecrete. The original map had almost nothing but a couple of catwalks, some toxic barrel thing, and a lump of Terraniux geo. Then a cave exit and the end. It was traaaaaaaash.


I remember The Pit, yeah. I think this was tied to the unfinished Jonas Gershwin stuff and the original death of Crowley, since Jones was to be captured a second time and the two soldiers were to be pitted against each other to the amusement of the Dead Scorpions. This was just too advanced for us at the time I think :o.

I actually don't think I remember your proto-level Waff. Did we go over it before you decided to start over or did you just keep it close to the vest?


BUFF SKELETON wrote:I also thought this map had a more interesting theme than planned as well, and one not seen often in games as it is - a location with a very specific and infrastructural purpose: water purification. Everywhere you look, you see huge amounts of water processing supplies and equipment and chemicals in storage. Usually it's Generic Industrial Base #4 but I wanted to make this feel like something more purpose-built.


Yeah, to be fair to you...this is probably the most believable level in the Dead Scorpions sequence of levels. Of the four or five maps this is the one that seems the most plausible. Darth's level is the most technically impressive, but maybe too industrial for what is supposed to be a complex built by a community of marooned scavengers.

BUFF SKELETON wrote:I can't even remember the last time I played this, let alone when we built it. What year was this shit all released? Christ it's probably over a decade old now.


About ten years since release, more if you consider dev time. Yeah :)
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 17:34

It's exactly 10 years since original release in 1 month believe it or not :D (reference - http://unrealsp.wikia.com/wiki/7_Bullets)

Always loved this map - the whole experience was very inspiring for me and has probably very much influenced a particular map of OSC ;)
I enjoyed the references to the Drunk Krall from Na Pali Haven Redux (name escapes me...) and ONP Guy - just wish we could have seen what the infamous Pit which the USM MArines were sent to looked like or been able to go inside the derelict Terraniux - I can imagine it would make a pretty atmospheric map in itself :P

Vandenburg Airfield rocks the house too, it must be said.

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User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 19:04

I love talking about cut content for some reasons.
I should make up ideas and content to then cut them.

User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 22:15

Sometimes I feel that's exactly what I've been doing for the last 2 years :P

I do love looking into cut stuff too though - I probably wouldn't have created Unreal SP wiki otherwise...

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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 23:49

SteadZ wrote:Vandenburg Airfield rocks the house too, it must be said.


Yeah, that wasn't my choice of music but it was pretty much perfect for the map.

Proph: I think you may have seen the original proto-map and decided "welp" and moved on - then I played the beta, felt hella bad, and kicked the mapping engines into overdrive and produced this instead. Thank god for that.
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 03:23

Well, you can always check this from the 7B Commentary document:

► Show Spoiler


Be warned though, it is written in Waffnufflian :P

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Last edited by SteadZ on 31 Oct 2014, 00:04, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar Semfry
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 21:11

SteadZ wrote:Well, you can always check this from the 7B Commentary document:


That seems to missing the other member's notes, as I recall Prophet saying a lot of this level was made in like a week or something.

I like the way this level uses the natural and artificial elements, with the gloomy caves contrasted with well-lit base segments, and it also makes the theme varied. Lol at the radio too. I remember I found the tank battle a giant pain in the ass the first time I played, but I guess it's reasonable enough if you instantly run to more covered areas. A good level and probably one of my favourites from the second half of the pack.

Edit:
Mister_Prophet wrote:I think maybe removing all hitscan attacks would have made the pack more interesting and fun.


I think removing hitscan attacks and slowing them down so they aren't all over the place would mostly make Bot fights in SP feel okay and less twitchy and random feeling.
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly

Post Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 00:04

Fixed that, I had just added what Waff said in the "Waffnufflian Version" of the 7 Bullets commentary before :P

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