Map Title: Beneath the Terraniux
Author: Waffnuffly, Mr. Prophet, Darthweasel
From: 7 Bullets
Filename: Jones-08-Pirate.unr
Music Files: RUAction01.umx, RUCreepy1, RUPlaybox, Vandenberg_Music
Video Playthrough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERR7FQfa8gM
Synopsis: Jones enters a Pirate outpost built beneath the wreckage of Terraniux.
Discuss!
27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
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Subject: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 15:50
Formerly Mman
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 23:22
I REALLY should get my anus playing 7 Bullets...
Trying to get back into the swing of things.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 23:30
Jigoku wrote:I REALLY should get my anus playing 7 Bullets...
hmm, I thought 3 or 4 of those bullets is just about the maximum. But then again, what do I know about kinky?
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014, 23:39
Can't wait for questions about where those Terraniux greenhouses come from.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 10:10
I believe the explanation for the sunken greenhouses stems from a disagreement between myself, Waffnuffly, Darthweasel and maybe some other people on the development team. None of us could agree on what the complete Terraniux actually looked like, each of us claiming that the player only sees it from the outside from certain perspectives and that it was possible that Prisoner 849 never visits the full complex.
I think my insistence that the sunken greenhouses be added (I supervised this map but only remember building the prison intro and setting up/tweaking some gameplay events. More on this in a moment) and the general difficulty I had reduxing the geometry from Noork's Elbow contributed to a confusing issue for some people, depending with how big or small you envision the Terraniux to be.
Anyway, my contributions. The prison. It was supposed to be a bigger section, and as some people on the team may remember I actually had a good chunk of a prison level made but lost it in a data corruption issue. I condensed the prison to two chambers and abridged some ideas. Watching the video, the two raiders going ham to the radio really cracks me up, especially since I had the gall to follow that with what was poorly conceived as a sensitive scene.
I admit my contributions were rather mediocre here, though I did help clean up some of the rough edges in the general gameplay and added Jonas Gershwin at the end (though we ended up reducing his role in the campaign to just a stronger Terran fight, since none of his lines were ever recorded. Waffnuffly deserves a lot of the praise for the actual level, as what's good about the level is completely because of him. The caves, the general complex, the catwalks, the Terraniux greenhouses, the easter eggs, the general gameplay coordination (or the bit of the gameplay I remember being there before I touched anything) was all Waffnuffly. Or Bug Horse is he prefers. Or Kevin . Was really happy to get him on board with Seven Bullets, wanted a collaboration since I played Attacked and since we both contributed maps to Deja Vu. One of those dudes in this little community of ours that I would not hesitate to work with again.
I could be wrong but I do think that Darthweasel has a credit because the end of the map is the beginning of his map, which either Waff or I cut and added to this.
This level is saddled in my memory for introducing some things to Seven Bullets I wish we had done without, like the half-baked UT rocket launcher that was actually a grenade launcher. We really didn't need to add it in retrospect, and it necessitated a silly handicap sequence in Unfinished Business so players couldn't cheese the boss too hard.
I think my insistence that the sunken greenhouses be added (I supervised this map but only remember building the prison intro and setting up/tweaking some gameplay events. More on this in a moment) and the general difficulty I had reduxing the geometry from Noork's Elbow contributed to a confusing issue for some people, depending with how big or small you envision the Terraniux to be.
Anyway, my contributions. The prison. It was supposed to be a bigger section, and as some people on the team may remember I actually had a good chunk of a prison level made but lost it in a data corruption issue. I condensed the prison to two chambers and abridged some ideas. Watching the video, the two raiders going ham to the radio really cracks me up, especially since I had the gall to follow that with what was poorly conceived as a sensitive scene.
I admit my contributions were rather mediocre here, though I did help clean up some of the rough edges in the general gameplay and added Jonas Gershwin at the end (though we ended up reducing his role in the campaign to just a stronger Terran fight, since none of his lines were ever recorded. Waffnuffly deserves a lot of the praise for the actual level, as what's good about the level is completely because of him. The caves, the general complex, the catwalks, the Terraniux greenhouses, the easter eggs, the general gameplay coordination (or the bit of the gameplay I remember being there before I touched anything) was all Waffnuffly. Or Bug Horse is he prefers. Or Kevin . Was really happy to get him on board with Seven Bullets, wanted a collaboration since I played Attacked and since we both contributed maps to Deja Vu. One of those dudes in this little community of ours that I would not hesitate to work with again.
I could be wrong but I do think that Darthweasel has a credit because the end of the map is the beginning of his map, which either Waff or I cut and added to this.
This level is saddled in my memory for introducing some things to Seven Bullets I wish we had done without, like the half-baked UT rocket launcher that was actually a grenade launcher. We really didn't need to add it in retrospect, and it necessitated a silly handicap sequence in Unfinished Business so players couldn't cheese the boss too hard.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 20:58
LOL wut. 7 Bullets is now 69 Bullets? I can live with that. But, my ass should play it some day, been slackin'.salsaSkaarj wrote:Jigoku wrote:I REALLY should get my anus playing 7 Bullets...
hmm, I thought 3 or 4 of those bullets is just about the maximum. But then again, what do I know about kinky?
Trying to get back into the swing of things.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 21:36
That video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERR7FQfa8gM) was uploaded by a Forsete so I can reasonably suspect that he's the one playing.
I wonder what difficulty level he's playing on, it seems too fast for Medium but damage by the humans seems too low for Hard.
I wonder what difficulty level he's playing on, it seems too fast for Medium but damage by the humans seems too low for Hard.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 21:54
He has...37? 27 Rations? Can't be Unreal difficulty, as you can only find 2 on that one. Considering that the Terrans do not have a lot of HP compared to Unreal enemies, a player who is very good at UT botmatch will have better aim and be able to drop them quicker. And the guns do a lot of damage.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 22:04
Mister_Prophet wrote:He has...37? 27 Rations? Can't be Unreal difficulty, as you can only find 2 on that one. Considering that the Terrans do not have a lot of HP compared to Unreal enemies, a player who is very good at UT botmatch will have better aim and be able to drop them quicker. And the guns do a lot of damage.
I beat that map on Medium with fingers up my nose, but on Hard it was more like a finger up my ass To me this seems halfway between (I never considered that being on Unreal difficulty, I tried that once and got clobbered all the way to Pluto).
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 22:14
Mister_Prophet wrote:I believe the explanation for the sunken greenhouses stems from a disagreement between myself, Waffnuffly, Darthweasel and maybe some other people on the development team. None of us could agree on what the complete Terraniux actually looked like, each of us claiming that the player only sees it from the outside from certain perspectives and that it was possible that Prisoner 849 never visits the full complex.
Three greenhouses in total, plus a 4th smaller side. So yeah P849 did visit the whole complex.
The real danger in this level is the boss at the end. He has a Chaingun so your best bet is using some hazardous Grenade Launcher or Plasma Rifle assault and hoping for the best. No real strategy exists.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 22:39
@Salsa
The big deciding factor is filtering damage received and the skill of the Terran pirates as they do have a lot of bot tendencies. UsAaR33 tried to comply with my wishes to the best of his ability in order diminish these aspects, but what we saw was that higher difficulties made their bot-behaviors win out. Still, the weapons all do more damage than their Unreal counterparts, explosives are more damaging. The Plasma weapon, the Rifle, new Ripper, ect. I kinda wanted people to spend less time shooting individual targets.
Plus, gotta remember the climate and platform it was released on. A lot of players were bored of conventional Unreal SP gameplay and turned to the PVP scene of UT and new UT. I operated under the assumption that this is what people were used to and a new campaign had to be a certain way to keep interest. This accounts for a lot of what is in Seven Bullets in general, but I do feel for veteran Unreal players that never really jumped for UT that may have felt a little overwhelmed by the Terrans. I believe this why creative packs like Unreality are generally unpopular with a lot of SP enthusiasts I've spoken to and why some people still don't like Seven Bullets by comparison to other campaigns/maps. They just don't have as much fun.
@UBerserker
You seem so sure. At the time, we (members of Red Nemesis) debated the exterior hull of the building/structure as it was in Harobed and Noork's, debated about whether it was a set piece or a scale model, and we conducted personal runs of Terraniux (or at least me and Darth did, maybe Waff) to refresh ourselves. The biggest evidence that there is just three greenhouses is the scale of the two Terraniux levels themselves and that it seems like a pretty literal layout. It doesn't help that I gave Waff the go ahead with the construction before the previous map was finished. I've said it before I think. The Noork redux was the last map made and while I got the important bits in there I wasn't so happy with the foundation I was working with due to a host of BSP errors that sprung up from the original map's instability. So, in concept, a razed Noork's Elbow with a dismantled, sunken Terraniux became a razed Noork's Elbow with a generally untouched Terraniux from the outside...and this level went ahead untethered.
In the end I don't really mind. Terraniux could be one building with 3 greenhouses, or six, or a series of buildings in close proximity and Prisoner 849 only ventured to one Hub.
As for the no strategy comment about Jonas (not really sure if he qualifies as a boss) there are certainly shortcomings in the AI base that was used and what we could do with it. The presence of hitscan weapons in the hands of Trooper and Bot-based AI might make it seem that way, but these situations were carefully arranged and the means for countering this enemy was provided extensively in the campaign. I would agree that is might be less satisfying to fight Terrans than Skaarj. At the end of the day, the bot code is simulation to prepare players for fighting other players. But is this the same as saying that a battle is a matter of chance? Or is it more fair to say that the strategies required are different?
I think maybe removing all hitscan attacks would have made the pack more interesting and fun.
The big deciding factor is filtering damage received and the skill of the Terran pirates as they do have a lot of bot tendencies. UsAaR33 tried to comply with my wishes to the best of his ability in order diminish these aspects, but what we saw was that higher difficulties made their bot-behaviors win out. Still, the weapons all do more damage than their Unreal counterparts, explosives are more damaging. The Plasma weapon, the Rifle, new Ripper, ect. I kinda wanted people to spend less time shooting individual targets.
Plus, gotta remember the climate and platform it was released on. A lot of players were bored of conventional Unreal SP gameplay and turned to the PVP scene of UT and new UT. I operated under the assumption that this is what people were used to and a new campaign had to be a certain way to keep interest. This accounts for a lot of what is in Seven Bullets in general, but I do feel for veteran Unreal players that never really jumped for UT that may have felt a little overwhelmed by the Terrans. I believe this why creative packs like Unreality are generally unpopular with a lot of SP enthusiasts I've spoken to and why some people still don't like Seven Bullets by comparison to other campaigns/maps. They just don't have as much fun.
@UBerserker
You seem so sure. At the time, we (members of Red Nemesis) debated the exterior hull of the building/structure as it was in Harobed and Noork's, debated about whether it was a set piece or a scale model, and we conducted personal runs of Terraniux (or at least me and Darth did, maybe Waff) to refresh ourselves. The biggest evidence that there is just three greenhouses is the scale of the two Terraniux levels themselves and that it seems like a pretty literal layout. It doesn't help that I gave Waff the go ahead with the construction before the previous map was finished. I've said it before I think. The Noork redux was the last map made and while I got the important bits in there I wasn't so happy with the foundation I was working with due to a host of BSP errors that sprung up from the original map's instability. So, in concept, a razed Noork's Elbow with a dismantled, sunken Terraniux became a razed Noork's Elbow with a generally untouched Terraniux from the outside...and this level went ahead untethered.
In the end I don't really mind. Terraniux could be one building with 3 greenhouses, or six, or a series of buildings in close proximity and Prisoner 849 only ventured to one Hub.
As for the no strategy comment about Jonas (not really sure if he qualifies as a boss) there are certainly shortcomings in the AI base that was used and what we could do with it. The presence of hitscan weapons in the hands of Trooper and Bot-based AI might make it seem that way, but these situations were carefully arranged and the means for countering this enemy was provided extensively in the campaign. I would agree that is might be less satisfying to fight Terrans than Skaarj. At the end of the day, the bot code is simulation to prepare players for fighting other players. But is this the same as saying that a battle is a matter of chance? Or is it more fair to say that the strategies required are different?
I think maybe removing all hitscan attacks would have made the pack more interesting and fun.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 22:53
Possibly three greenhouses per floor - the underground one with the toxic waste and the second floor one over the mountain which is open to the sky. Then from outside none of the greenhouses are shown open.
I can't even imagine how the full Terraniux would truly look like but <INOXX>.
I don't know what to say about the bot thing.
In Single Player you can die only once.
The "no strategy" thing about Jonas is that you confront him in an empty room where he can shoot you anywhere so it's just seconds until the battle ends. Unless you put up some really insane strategy by falling into the water and waiting until you can snipe him.
Seven Bullets' terrans have nothing on Unreality's bot matches. Unreality has crabs who resist 4-5 flak shells in the face.
I can't even imagine how the full Terraniux would truly look like but <INOXX>.
I don't know what to say about the bot thing.
In Single Player you can die only once.
The "no strategy" thing about Jonas is that you confront him in an empty room where he can shoot you anywhere so it's just seconds until the battle ends. Unless you put up some really insane strategy by falling into the water and waiting until you can snipe him.
Seven Bullets' terrans have nothing on Unreality's bot matches. Unreality has crabs who resist 4-5 flak shells in the face.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:05
UBerserker wrote:I don't know what to say about the bot thing.
In Single Player you can die only once.
The "no strategy" thing about Jonas is that you confront him in an empty room where he can shoot you anywhere so it's just seconds until the battle ends. Unless you put up some really insane strategy by falling into the water and waiting until you can snipe him.
Can't remember this Jonas fella. Which part of the map is that?
UBerserker wrote:Seven Bullets' terrans have nothing on Unreality's bot matches. Unreality has crabs who resist 4-5 flak shells in the face.
I have to agree 110% here. The Terrans aren't your usual Unreal enemy but on Easy and Medium most players shouldn't get frustrated at all, on Hard .. well.. it's going to take a couple of tries and you might as well be seasoned before even trying 7B on Hard, on Unreal: too much for me (although I did beat TSO on Unreal, once .. I think, ... no I'm sure AFAIR I managed to get some shelter under the rocks and by popping in and out eventually triumphed, although I suffered severe wounds ). But there's no comparison with Unreality, which in terms of gameplay is a pure waste of time.
Last edited by salsaSkaarj on 28 Oct 2014, 23:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:08
Jonas is the pirate you kill at the end of this map. He has a Chaingun.
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Subject: Re: 27/10/2014 - "Beneath the Terraniux" by Waffnuffly
Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 23:10
UBerserker wrote:Jonas is the pirate you kill at the end of this map. He has a Chaingun.
You mean the one which was killed by the double enforcers in rapid fire? That didn't seem so difficult.
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