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If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

For gameplay advice and broader discussion of single-player Unreal including custom maps, mods and mutations that alter the game.

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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 07:46

"Unreal is what spawned this community. It makes little sense to assign a score to it."

It doesn't follow though XD. We have packs reviewed here which in my opinion (and probably a few others) are better than the mothergame. If it makes little sense to assign a score to unreal, then it makes little sense to assign a score to any map pack at all. And we've already been where that line of thought leads many times :P (The schema being misleading, etc).

I really would like to hear some reasoning (reasoning that actually holds together or is at least fleshed out enough to provoke thought) as to why we shouldn't review it. So far the impression i'm getting is that people have some vague instinct that unreal is the benchmark/bible and it would be somehow uncomfortable if it were reviewed.

The schema works because it pegs maps against each other in a relational sense (at least, it was when Scraggy Babes was in charge. I remember having to lower the score significantly on the Xeranias Fall map to get it more in line with the other reviews on the site). If Tower of Shrakitha and The Last Fortress score 90, then I'd throw a rough 83 at Unreal and 78 at RTNP.
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User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 08:24

Here's an argument: There are many, many many many map packs by community authors still waiting for reviews. :P If anyone were to invest their time into reviewing something, they should do so with those projects first...!

Yes, this is an invitation! \o/
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 08:36

TheIronKnuckle wrote: So far the impression i'm getting is that people have some vague instinct that unreal is the benchmark/bible and it would be somehow uncomfortable if it were reviewed.



It's not vague instinct. It's just instinct. And the word I earlier used was inappropriate, but what makes me uncomfortable is that it needs to actually be discussed why it is a bad idea that a review of Unreal is done for USP. I believe you are looking at this the wrong way. It would be easy for anyone to review Unreal, and surely I could criticize it as I could anything else (I have no problem doing so with other commercial games). But to write one for this site, where Unreal would be listed with community works that were made under the under the banner of its name, is disrespectful and pompous, as I see it. Disrespectful that we would host such a review in the company of community campaigns, pompous that we should believe that anyone in the community might potentially create something of better quality. This site doesn't review commercial games, it reviews community-made maps. This is done for players, and all players who venture here ought to know Unreal by default.

I think it should be that simple to explain. We're fans. We can rate each other.

UB_
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 11:24

sana wrote:Here's an argument: There are many, many many many map packs by community authors still waiting for reviews. :P If anyone were to invest their time into reviewing something, they should do so with those projects first...!

Yes, this is an invitation! \o/


When will my new review appear? lol
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User avatar AlCapowned
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 14:16

The main problem I see with reviewing Unreal/RTNP is that they would both suffer from "Strangeworld Syndrome," having a bunch of ideas that were used by later packs while being dated in build in comparison. Even though there are some map themes that have never been successfully emulated (Vortex and Nyleve come to mind), I can think of others that were outdone (like Chizra for temple maps and Gala's Peak for snowy maps). Having the protagonist crash-land on an alien planet has been done to death by now, so how would that affect the overall score? I would think it would be a good thing, since Unreal started that idea, but someone else might not think it was as interesting.

The maps vary in theme, quality, etc. more than any other map pack out there. Outside of reviewing the campaigns map by map, I can't see any score being accurate (even then, Unreal set the standard for custom maps, so I doubt that would be fair, either). Looking at all of the different opinions in the MotW threads, some people might think Map X brought the game down, while others might think it was a good inclusion. With so many maps in Unreal/RTNP, there's no way anyone would agree.

I just don't think it's a can of worms that needs to be opened.

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 15:59

AlCapowned wrote:...
I just don't think it's a can of worms that needs to be opened.

It depends on whether one considers it a can of worms.
Things like gameplay awe and conceptual grandness may be difficult to judge since we all know Unreal and many following maps and have seen and experienced efforts to emulate or better that (and introduce new ideas).
But other aspects e.g. technical execution could be looked at. If faults are found (not if really, there's no doubt faults will be found), I don't consider that looking down upon Unreal. Unreal was (and still is) a landmark, and errors in the game can be used as a tutorial means in order to avoid similar errors in later maps. Some errors probably were inavoidable at the time (with the engine available).

Personally I doubt there a game in existence which doesn't have a fault, and pointing out the faults, or even shwoing how later productions avoided such fault doesn't take away any credit from the game.
Concerning Unreal: there are maps made much later which have better visuals but that doesn't take away the fact that the Unreal maps (most of them) were utterly convincing.

Whatever the rating Unreal will or would get, Unreal will stay in my toplist of games (I have played), together with Lemmings (and from what I have seen Minecraft could well be a strong candidate.)

UB_
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 16:09

I'd like to open a can of worms and say that Minecraft fucking sucks.

p.s. when you rate Unreal you need to take into account all the content that come with it.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 16:23

UBerserker wrote:I'd like to open a can of worms and say that Minecraft fucking sucks.

I don't see any can of worms.

UBerserker wrote:p.s. when you rate Unreal you need to take into account all the content that come with it.

I never said (or implied) something should not be taken into account. I just said certain aspect would be more difficult (because, as mentioned by others, what Unreal showed us first is now what we are used to, so it's almost impossible to rate that objectively).

For clarity's sake, I couldn't care less for a rating of Unreal, but I am interested in reading about faults in the game (not really bad texture alignments, but stuff like gameplay errors, unintentional means to avoid sections, bloopers).

User avatar Tarydax
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 18:27

UBerserker wrote:I'd like to open a can of worms and say that Minecraft fucking sucks.


It doesn't help that MC was made by a (to put it lightly) jerk, either.

Back on topic, I personally wouldn't think a review of the original game would be plausible. I would imagine that it would be so difficult to rate not only because it's the mother game and set the standard for future custom maps, but it's also been surpassed by a lot of custom campaigns in more than one way. I wouldn't hate seeing a review of the original game, but I'd have to agree with Mister Prophet et al. on this one.
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Levelworm
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 18:48

sana wrote:Here's an argument: There are many, many many many map packs by community authors still waiting for reviews. :P If anyone were to invest their time into reviewing something, they should do so with those projects first...!

Yes, this is an invitation! \o/


Do you have the links? I fear that I'm going to run out of mods to play, considering I only know those posted on this site.
Power lays only in Darkness


User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 19:07

Levelworm wrote:...
Do you have the links? I fear that I'm going to run out of mods to play, considering I only know those posted on this site.

huh? Seriously. The large mappacks (ONP, Xidia, 7B, Xenome: FD, DV, Zephon, Forgotten) are worth playing on at least 2 difficulties (try Unreal difficulty for a serious encounter).
Also there are many Monsterhunt maps which can be played as SP (set bots to 0) for hours and hours of fun (or frustration 8) ).

Levelworm
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Subject: Re: If the original Unreal campaign were rated UnrealSP style

Post Posted: 21 Aug 2012, 23:20

salsaSkaarj wrote:
Levelworm wrote:...
Do you have the links? I fear that I'm going to run out of mods to play, considering I only know those posted on this site.

huh? Seriously. The large mappacks (ONP, Xidia, 7B, Xenome: FD, DV, Zephon, Forgotten) are worth playing on at least 2 difficulties (try Unreal difficulty for a serious encounter).
Also there are many Monsterhunt maps which can be played as SP (set bots to 0) for hours and hours of fun (or frustration 8) ).


I think he was talking about the un-reviewed mappacks? Yeah, probably plenty of them though.
BTW playing RTNP:UE on Unreal, the Krall lords are much more formidable.
Power lays only in Darkness

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