Hardest SP packs Tier list

[salsaSkaarj]

I'm disagree with you all and play the way I like it. Kind of like I did with ONP but it was still a worthless change.

Your decision but any comments you have on this mappack (concerning gameplay and use of allies) are worthless if you haven't played it.

[UB_]

From yesterday to today, clearly a segmented playthrough of 14 hours, I finished the Xenome thing with difficulty [U], and for the first real time after Sky Town Reduxx with the [HiSpeed +15%] mode, which is going to be permanent.
Didn't go at modifying stuff: the pack was basically built around DP playing; regarding the allies instead, I ignored them, or let them killed before myself doing anything in the case of the last battle. So yeah.
It's the most excellent example of "Trial and Error" gameplay in any Unreal SP pack, although one reload is necessary to take the right strategy. And that is, until the end of the game. C Tier.

Side note: the 81% score and all the comments left are waaaaaaaay too insanely off. Felt like a primitive Xidia with some ONP and tons of repetitiveness, and I didn't enjoy it at all. Sorry jazz; at least you have the support of many other players.

[Legendslayer222]

I generally agree with the scores, and at the giant gap!

(P.S: Why is S always at the top?)

[UB_]

(P.S: Why is S always at the top?)

I guess it stands for "super" and "something special".
Anyway the S thing has been always used like this, then I don't know; it's everywhere now.

[jazz]

Side note: the 81% score and all the comments left are waaaaaaaay too insanely off. Felt like a primitive Xidia with some ONP and tons of repetitiveness, and I didn't enjoy it at all. Sorry jazz; at least you have the support of many other players.

Ah...Nevermind UB, at least your honest. It seems no matter how much work one does, some people wont like it. Some folks dont like 7B but i loved it ... Go figure!

[UB_]

The use of sound effects were amazing though. If it wasn't for the Unreal music which didn't fit (but you have already addressed this I think), it would have been a straight out 10.

[salsaSkaarj]

So yeah.
It's the most excellent example of "Trial and Error" gameplay in any Unreal SP pack, although one reload is necessary to take the right strategy. And that is, until the end of the game. C Tier.

Oh, so you did play it then! OK, At least now your opinion is based on experience - and it shows how people can differ in opinion, especially on how we experience the gameplay.

First of all, the "Trail and Error" part is understandable - I had the same impression in the beginning (the 3 Skaarj hill) and later on also with the Skaarj in the basement (after getting a power cell).

BUT!!! By that time (as I have written before) I was thinking, either this is major gameplay design flaw or my approach to the battles is flawed.
I PMed Jazz about this - showing how I could either avoid battles altogether, or at least take advantage of the surroundings so that I it's no more a question of having luck. And jazz confirmed my impression that the battles are NOT set up in a way that you can rely on firepower alone.
The fact that in the beginning the DP and enforcer (with limited ammo) are your only weapons, also should make it clear that there is no way you are going to last the whole campaign if you cannot think of a way to either avoid a fight, exploit the environment so that you can get a relatively easy kill (either by hit and run technique, or by manoeuvring around to where you can easily escape a closing enemy, or even getting to a location where the enemy can't reach you).

In my opinion that is one of the very strong aspects of the mappack. Yes, "Trial and Error" for the first fight (s) but after that it should be clear that there is another way. One thing which already helps the player is that most enemies can be heard (or read about in the messages) so ample warning is given. I really hate is when and enemy just pops up for no reason and takes away half you health and armor before you can react. As Mman mentioned in his review, sometimes he relied on exploiting the AI - great, but isn't that what you do with every enemy - fighting technique changes with enemy encountered.

Whichever way you attack it, I'll agree that Xenome can be considered a hard pack - but I managed to beat it on Unreal, which probably implies that it is not on par with Xidia in terms of difficulty (in Xidia I am stuck with the enemy in confined spaces too many times).

Solely regarding gameplay, Xenome has giving me more pleasure than most other packs because there were really few sections where I had to rely on saving after a succesfull kill (or even partial hits). If I compare this with Vigil - I can't really because it takes quite a few attempts before one gets the hang of fighting KrallKings or IceBehemoths or IceLords or OverLords - those are really Trial and Error. But even so, having cleared out the lower and upper level in Vigil (on Unreal), it was done because of knowing what to expect and how to use the walls so that the fireballs can be avoided.

Every game is a learning experience (moving forward in TLF just like you would in Unreal wouldn't get you very far) but Xenome quickly gives you enough hints so that you can adapt your way of progressing and after that there isn't much trial and error anymore - if memory doesn't fail me there was only one section where I couldn't find an easy way and it took me like 10 tries of unavoidable frontal fighting. Oh yes, and one section where I had to try a couple of positions for my allies so that they could help me instead of dying within seconds.

Before I get lots of criticism on my (positive) prejudice concerning Xenome: I have started Xidia (on Medium) and I can see no resemblance in gameplay - which does not at all imply that the gameplay is flawed - I'm just not good enough to beat Xidia on Unreal.

So in conclusion - I can understand your dislike of the gameplay (although you can't really have an opinion on how he used the allies) and now at least we have UB's opinion on where Xenome fits concerning difficulty compared to other maps ( I would classify it in a slightly easier section).

[UB_]

I didn't have problems with those 3 Skaarj Lords at the beginning of map 2 - they fought each other. I didn't have allies with me obviously, so that could be a reason. But looking at the empty pool, the real battle would have been a real piece of cake.

BUT!!! By that time (as I have written before) I was thinking, either this is major gameplay design flaw or my approach to the battles is flawed.
I PMed Jazz about this - showing how I could either avoid battles altogether, or at least take advantage of the surroundings so that I it's no more a question of having luck. And jazz confirmed my impression that the battles are NOT set up in a way that you can rely on firepower alone.
The fact that in the beginning the DP and enforcer (with limited ammo) are your only weapons, also should make it clear that there is no way you are going to last the whole campaign if you cannot think of a way to either avoid a fight, exploit the environment so that you can get a relatively easy kill (either by hit and run technique, or by manoeuvring around to where you can easily escape a closing enemy, or even getting to a location where the enemy can't reach you).

In every pack you do use environments at your advantage. Actually, that's how you should play Unreal all the time; it happens with the original Unreal, it happens with Zephon, it happens with ASMD-Ortican, it happens even with Botreality and more. Nothing new here. All I did in Xenome was just backtracking or running around a crane while shooting a Skaarj with the DP (it's cool with a higher speed). Oh and regarding weapons, I almost used the DP permanently. The Enforcer-sucks-compared-to-the-Automag and the low tier BioRifle were totally ignored, Ripper-is-not-useful-as-the-Razorjack and Pulse-Gun-which-shoots-stuff-confusingly-all-over-the-place were rarely used. Rocket Launcher instead did its job against groups of enemies, but 95% of the enemies fell due to the DP. At this point I didn't care anymore about its unlimited feature, but it shows how unfairly powerful is the weapon. I was fully prepared for this so I didn't have problems throughout the whole pack.

Yes, "Trial and Error" for the first fight (s) but after that it should be clear that there is another way. One thing which already helps the player is that most enemies can be heard (or read about in the messages) so ample warning is given. I really hate is when and enemy just pops up for no reason and takes away half you health and armor before you can react. As Mman mentioned in his review, sometimes he relied on exploiting the AI - great, but isn't that what you do with every enemy - fighting technique changes with enemy encountered.

I didn't bother to read the messages. At a certain point, and really early in the game, I understood that anything (and I mean, anything) you would do story-wise or progress-wise throughout the maps will make Skaarj appear. Almost 40-something ambushes, made by Skaarj Lords or Skaarj Gunners or Skaarj Infantries, they work and end in the same exact way. There's a door here okay; there's a large corridor here okay. The gameplay awe shout it in your face basically.
And that is, until the end of the game. Seemed nice at first, but then the variety vanished and I was really annoyed to death. I can't define anymore the gameplay awe being good: it's sub-par and poor. Even more repetitive than ONP's one ever was, which I also despise.
I recall sections where enemies did pop up out of the blue or just in less than a second, usually impossible to expect. Mah, totally unconvincing. Cutscenes weren't really necessary; i.e. why I have to wait three Skaarj Lords that exit from their ship, instead of attacking them? And I can't go around because the next area is filled with Skaarj Gunners that are able to hit you always. Some of the Gunners were badly placed and extremely hard to see in general. Thanks god there weren't Snipers.
Another flaw, as stupid as it is... why can't I walk over those small firewalls? Are they that hot? In recent games, like Fallout 3, stuff like this is harmless.

Overall, I didn't feel any kind of progression during the pack - it was all the same with no real build-up. The jumping sections didn't help, and the layout wasn't that clear on where you have to go.

Solely regarding gameplay, Xenome has giving me more pleasure than most other packs because there were really few sections where I had to rely on saving after a succesfull kill (or even partial hits). If I compare this with Vigil - I can't really because it takes quite a few attempts before one gets the hang of fighting KrallKings or IceBehemoths or IceLords or OverLords - those are really Trial and Error. But even so, having cleared out the lower and upper level in Vigil (on Unreal), it was done because of knowing what to expect and how to use the walls so that the fireballs can be avoided.

I do this everywhere, mostly during the first few playthroughs of hard stuff like Ortican or Seven Bots.

Before I get lots of criticism on my (positive) prejudice concerning Xenome: I have started Xidia (on Medium) and I can see no resemblance in gameplay - which does not at all imply that the gameplay is flawed - I'm just not good enough to beat Xidia on Unreal.

So in conclusion - I can understand your dislike of the gameplay (although you can't really have an opinion on how he used the allies) and now at least we have UB's opinion on where Xenome fits concerning difficulty compared to other maps ( I would classify it in a slightly easier section).

Team of Skaarj thrown at you reminds me of Xidia. There's nothing special to know about the ONP-coded allies - one reason I like Unreal is that I don't have annoying or flat-out weak AIs around, no exceptions. You're the lone one, and you're the only one to prevail.

This isn't anyway a Xenome thread, so I won't respond to other replies about it. I'll make more detailed comments on it during its future MOTWs. Well look, another rare USP review which I don't agree upon.

[Semfry]

Ripper-is-not-useful-as-the-Razorjack

The Ripper does the same damage (maybe more) and shoots faster; it's much more powerful most of the time. They both have near-useless secondaries but even in that regard I'd give it to the Ripper, as it at least has uses for crowd control and knocking stuff in pits, whereas the Razorjack secondary gives you a glacially slow blade that everything dodges anyway.

[UB_]

I can do silent headshots very often with the RazorJack's secondary. Headshooting in general is easier with the Razorjack due to the centre view and more visible blades. I find the Ripper pure dead weight.
But as always I think all of the UT weapons suck hardcore in Unreal SP, even in how they look like. Except the BioRifle of course, which is not very useful anyway.

[Semfry]

I can do silent headshots very often with the RazorJack's secondary.

You mean something like using the secondary when you've snuck up on something always gets you an easy first shot? I'll have to try that.

[UB_]

It's a matter of skill. Took some years to learn it but obviously I'm not perfect. But it's a nice way to kill enemies who hide behind corners, for example. And that's only the beginning.
With the Ripper? I have no idea what to do with it, its secondary fire isn't even that powerful. The Rocket Launcher does the job, until the BloodPack Ripper from 7B came. Now that works really good: super-powerful explosive blades which you can "move".

Ripper's blades deal 30 damage as the RazorJack's ones. Explosive ones deal almost 60 damage; not very much and the enemies dodge them.

[Mister_Prophet]

It really depends on the person. For example, I have stark differences of opinion with UB's Tier. For everything on his "S" tier (S means Special, btw) I found it laughably absurd that those were considered harder than some of the ones he put on his A or even as low as C. In regards to my own levels that are on there, I have always stated that my SPs have gotten progressively easier the more balanced I've made them.

[UB_]

These are my reasons

Ortican is tight. Health Packs are just so few and there isn't much room to escape once you enter the structure. ASMD Skaarj Troopers and the enemy waves after the Queen are some serious trouble; you have to be almost untouchable all the time.

ShamuQuest, other than being too much large and confusing (which may count in the difficulty), punishes you for backtracking. In Map 1, you'll have to face Skaarj Scouts who suddenly appear in specific points of the map, with no warning. Accidentally fight them means that you'll waste all of your health. Map 2 is somewhat really insane. Many enemies of various types, and traps. I don't remember Map 3 at all (I always said it was extremely confusing and crashy).

Spantobi has Skaarj Snipers and Gunners placed in unfair positions. They decide the difficulty, you decide a healthproof strategy.

Zero Black may not be that hard, but the underwater sections can be sometimes ridiculous. Six Slith in a dark chamber, always underwater. No chance of survival. Skaarj Trooper caste once again will throw you into trouble.

Unforcher, according to EDave, it's designed to be hard. I think you have played it since you co-worked for the translator messages, but I'm serious: it's hardcore.

Seven Bullets is almost the same as Xidia in difficulty, except one thing: terran bots. At least you did have a Plasma Rifle.

[Mister_Prophet]

Ortican is tight. Health Packs are just so few and there isn't much room to escape once you enter the structure. ASMD Skaarj Troopers and the enemy waves after the Queen are some serious trouble; you have to be almost untouchable all the time.

I'll agree with this. Ortican is the exception to what I said, as it really is a tough little romp. (It's also technically an unofficial part of the Jones series).

ShamuQuest, other than being too much large and confusing (which may count in the difficulty), punishes you for backtracking. In Map 1, you'll have to face Skaarj Scouts who suddenly appear in specific points of the map, with no warning. Accidentally fight them means that you'll waste all of your health. Map 2 is somewhat really insane. Many enemies of various types, and traps. I don't remember Map 3 at all (I always said it was extremely confusing and crashy).

Spantobi has Skaarj Snipers and Gunners placed in unfair positions. They decide the difficulty, you decide a healthproof strategy.

Zero Black may not be that hard, but the underwater sections can be sometimes ridiculous. Six Slith in a dark chamber, always underwater. No chance of survival. Skaarj Trooper caste once again will throw you into trouble.

Unforcher, according to EDave, it's designed to be hard. I think you have played it since you co-worked for the translator messages, but I'm serious: it's hardcore.

All of these I never had any trouble with, aside from some moments in Zero Black and Unforcher that really weren't related to combat. You're right about the underwater segment of Zero Black, but it's really more of a case of "playing it wrong the first time" than anything. Unforcher had a rough opening, but again...I don't see it as a SP that's exactly hard as it is difficult unless you play it "the right way." When I was beta testing Unforcher the ending wasn't working right at the time, so I remember being stuck in the courtyard with a bunch of infinitely respawning Skaarj.

Seven Bullets is almost the same as Xidia in difficulty, except one thing: terran bots. At least you did have a Plasma Rifle.

This is where I have to really disagree. Xidia and 7B are not remotely the same, as 7B actually had a great deal more difficulty balance than its predecessor. I know it's very rough on the Unreal difficulty, but then again 7B is a special case when it comes to the fourth difficulty. The differences between 7B on Hard as compared to Unreal are night and day, and it was made that way on purpose for a select group of players. Xidia, on the other hand, had bugs and other obscene balance issues that never really got the proper kind of optimization. Even on Medium it could be unforgiving for most players.