Hardest SP packs Tier list

[gatecrasher48]

They are not bots!! I have never seen bots actually fight each other, perhaps the code doesn't allow it.

Yeah I did use that term incorrectly; by 'bots', I was referring to 'pawns.'

Maybe this is a difficulty thing, because, on hard at least, all three are Skaarj lords which is a class that doesn't in-fight.

So, is that the rule? Pawns won't attack any other pawn of a matching type? Maybe that can explain why bots never fight each other, or at least in unreal sp.

[Buff Skeleton]

It's the usual case, but there are exceptions. Skaarj Berserkers will fight other Skaarj, for instance, but not Pupae. It depends on whether or not there are custom definitions in the eAttitudeTo function of the pawn.

[UB_]

It's possible that monsters of the same type (except Berserkers, I'm talking about Lords or Krall) will fight each other due to a bug in scripted sequences. This happened to me at the beginning of Map 2, and I really didn't check if those were Lords or Berserkers (plus I heard that Xenome on Hard doesn't differ from Unreal difficulty aside the enemies making full of use of their stats; I guess they were still Lords?).

[gatecrasher48]

They're actually Assasins on medium, and Berserkers on Unreal. I just tried it both ways; I couldn't get the assasins to attack each other no matter how much crossfire I made them give each other, while the berserkers actually started killing each other as soon as they appeared. Maybe the spawnpoints were too close together? It seems strange that they'd attack each other before accidentally damaging each other in any way. They're not dropped on each other's heads, either. Regardless, this does prove what's been said earlier about pawn behavior. I still wonder if there are other ways to make pawns of the same class fight each other, though.

[Hellscrag]

I still wonder if there are other ways to make pawns of the same class fight each other, though.

It's easy with a bit of extra code. It can be done by creating a new subclass and overriding one of the parent class' functions (I forget which, but the SkaarjBerserker's code contains just such an example).

[Semfry]

Looking in the editor it appears that Berserkers spawn on one difficulty but none of the others; if that's right then it probably needs some rebalancing considering it makes that fight much easier (not to mention that if that's on Unreal I'm pretty sure Lords have superior stats to Berserkers anyway).

Edit: Checking in the editor shows they have the same health, but Berserkers do slightly more damage and have higher aggression, no in-fighting still results in the Lords being much more dangerous in numbers though.

[jazz]

if that's right then it probably needs some rebalancing considering it makes that fight much easier

Good call Mman. I'd totally forgot about the Berserker stats in that they try to waste everything in sight, including each other.
One for my notebook!

[UB_]

Or using the Nexus End way from the UBeta. Put all the Berserkers in a TeamTag so they'll work together.

EDIT: So, Assassins appear in [E],[M] and [H]? They aren't that strong. I guess replacing one of them with a Lord feels a better choice.

[Mister_Prophet]

Lords are the only reliable class of Skaarj Warrior, I find. I've never encountered an instance where Lords turn on each other.

[UB_]

Or your favourite
All the others (including teamed up Berserkers) behave in the same way.

[Mister_Prophet]

Yeah, my favorite. But it's just that I've never had an issue with a Lord in my own experiences preparing gameplay scenarios. I dunno if it's luck or something ingrained in their code. It's like we finish each other's sentences.

[gatecrasher48]

Yeah, pretty sure it's assassins on [E], [M[, and [H]. Even though they don't attack each other, their health isn't that great and they do pretty low damage. I personally find lords the most difficult to fight. They deal lots of damage and have just as much health as Berserkers do. Berserkers just seem so big that they're impossible to miss, and they just seem slower somehow.

Also, I just thought of something. Why do skaarj actively go after the nali class when they don't act that way with any other pawn type? Is this ingrained in their code?

[Buff Skeleton]

Code: Select all

function eAttitude AttitudeToCreature(Pawn Other)
{
   if ( Other.IsA('Skaarj') )
   {
      if ( Other.IsA('SkaarjBerserker') )
         return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
      else
         return ATTITUDE_Friendly;
   }
   else if ( Other.IsA('Pupae') )
      return ATTITUDE_Friendly;
   else if ( Other.IsA('Nali') )
      return ATTITUDE_Hate;
   else if ( Other.IsA('WarLord') || Other.IsA('Queen') )
      return ATTITUDE_Friendly;
   else
      return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
}

This is in Skaarj, the master class for all Troopers/Warriors.

This is the one in Skaarj Berserker, which is modified:

Code: Select all

function eAttitude AttitudeToCreature(Pawn Other)
{
   if ( Other.IsA('ScriptedPawn') && !Other.IsA('Pupae') )
      return ATTITUDE_Hate;
   else
      return ATTITUDE_Ignore;
}

As you can see, Berskers hate EVERYTHING except Pupae, while other Skaarj have more conditions. Berskers, it seems, do not have an insta-hatred of Nali, either, which is interesting.

This all changes of course when a pawn takes damage from a certain class. Normal Skaarj, while set to ignore/be friendly to a Berserker, will return fire if the Berserker attacks them.

[Semfry]

EDIT: So, Assassins appear in [E],[M] and [H]? They aren't that strong. I guess replacing one of them with a Lord feels a better choice.

On hard it's all Lords, which makes that by far the hardest difficulty in this instance.

[UB_]

I'm playing right now Zephon on Unreal difficulty, started this morning. I'm in the Kroogar Outpost now (map 4) and so far it has been pretty tame. Saving tons of times, never losing any health - 100 health and 100 Shield Belt - and fighting everyone with guess what.

Dispersion Pistol. It's a drug.

Except against Troopers (Stinger or ASMD in this case), they're always tough, especially that one with tons of health and armed with an ASMD - he didn't manage to touch me luckily, but design-wise it's obviously bad. What thicken me off are the technical problems: map 2 has crashy issues when you try to finish it, and the goddamned doors.