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Why do you still play Unreal?

For gameplay advice and broader discussion of single-player Unreal including custom maps, mods and mutations that alter the game.

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Kerr Avon
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Subject: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 26 May 2012, 16:34

Hello, new poster here (and not a spambot, or a troll, so please don't worry :wink: ).

Anyway, I'm a huge fan of Unreal Tournament (and it's mods and mutators, such as Soul Harvest, Weapons Factory UT, Unreal Fortress, and a stack of maps, especially Goldeneye conversions, and the brilliant XMaps), but I've not really played Unreal, as for some reason I missed it the first time round. I did buy Unreal Gold some time back, but when I tried Unreal it didn't hold my attention, so I just gave up on it. Anyway, I love modding the Unreal Tournament games (well, UT1 and UT2004, I'm no fan of UT2003 and UT3) and I've always meant to try the single player campaigns for UT1 that I've read about on UT forums, such as 7 Bullets, and Spacial Fear, so I thought I'd try Unreal again.

So I was wondering what it is about Unreal that makes it so popular with fans, even after all this time? Do people still play it, time after time, and do you attempt speed runs, 'handicapped'* runs etc? What do you like about the game, and do you prefer it to more modern games. Personally, I love some older first person shooters, such as Goldeneye, Perfect Dark (my favourite game ever), Duke Nukem 3D, and Doom, and I think that for the past few years especially the first person shooter has been in a rut. The last really good FPS to be released I think was Singularity in 2010 (which sadly very few people played, and I think the official reviews really under-rated it), it's sort of like Bioshock crossed with Half-Life 2, and the few people I know who played it loved it, although like both Bioshock and Half-Life 2, the scripted events that move the story along also contribute to the lack of replayability, as they make the levels more memorable, so you know what's coming next.

Also, what single player campaigns for Unreal Tournament would you recommend? Is there anything I should know, any order I should play them in, etc?

Thanks for any answers.




* 'Handicapped' runs are where, when you replay a game you known inside out, you make up your own rules about how to play the game to make it more difficult for yourself, to give the game extra challenge. Like in Perfect Dark or Goldeneye, where you set the enemies health, speed and damage-to-player settings to maximum, or non-lethal playthroughs of Deus Ex, where you deliberately don't kill anyone (except for the few people who must die, as dictated by the game), or the Thief games, where you 'ghost' the levels (i.e. you don't let anyone see you, or even suspect your presence, at all).

UB_
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 26 May 2012, 16:44

http://www.unrealsp.org/community/reviews.html

Almost all the Unreal packs/maps work under Unreal Tournament, except the ones with "227" displayed - you need Unreal or Unreal Gold patched to 227 (unofficial patch you can get from OldUnreal).
Scores do matter or not; remember those are opinions too and you may find maps better than others. For example, ONP is rated very high but I don't like it because the quality jumps between atrocious and good.

As UT packs go, I don't recommend playing Unreality Episode One because the gameplay is horrid and awful.


As for your question I play Unreal/Oldskool because after 14 years it's always great and I never get bored of it. Plus, mods and mappacks are still coming out for it. Also it was the first real FPS I did enjoy, aside Quake 1.
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User avatar Anreel
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 13:11

I don't play Unreal anymore but it's been playing in my head since '98 and will always keep playing. That wow effect can't be erased o_o

User avatar lowenz
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 14:29

Unreal = perfect synthesis of atmosphere (music + level design) and solid FPS gameplay.
Both the man of science and the man of action live always at the edge of mystery, surrounded by it - J.R.O.
Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody sees - E.S.

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 15:50

Hi! :D

I still play Unreal because I like everything about it. The atmosphere, music, enemies, and story have stuck with me more than those of most other games. For me, Unreal is a work of art that ages like a painting instead of the average videogame, which is why I'll probably be playing until I die.

Kerr Avon
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 15:52

Thanks for all of the answers.


UBerserker wrote:http://www.unrealsp.org/community/reviews.html

Almost all the Unreal packs/maps work under Unreal Tournament, except the ones with "227" displayed - you need Unreal or Unreal Gold patched to 227 (unofficial patch you can get from OldUnreal).
Scores do matter or not; remember those are opinions too and you may find maps better than others. For example, ONP is rated very high but I don't like it because the quality jumps between atrocious and good.

As UT packs go, I don't recommend playing Unreality Episode One because the gameplay is horrid and awful.


As for your question I play Unreal/Oldskool because after 14 years it's always great and I never get bored of it. Plus, mods and mappacks are still coming out for it. Also it was the first real FPS I did enjoy, aside Quake 1.


That page you link to is a good archive, thanks (and thanks for the heads up about the patch, I hadn't thought to look for a patch for Gold edition).

I'm no fan of Quake (or Q2, or Q4). I do like Quake 3, but I think Unreal Tournament beats it in just about every way (except maybe graphically, which I don't care about). I always thought Quake lacked the fun and immersion of Doom.



Anreel wrote:I don't play Unreal anymore but it's been playing in my head since '98 and will always keep playing. That wow effect can't be erased o_o


Why don't you play it any more? Personally I play older FPS games as I prefer them to the newer types. I still think that some newer ones (say post 2004 to present day) are good, such as Crysis 1 and 2, Singularity, Portal 2, etc, but most FPSs from the last ten years or so seem to me to focus on the one things - great graphics (with little or no interactivity), too short, too easy, no friendly-fire so that you can happily spray your bullets and grenades where you like without worrying about hurting your allies, scripted non-interative unskippable scenes that remind you it's just a game, quick time events (press a certain button when prompted or you die), recharging health, etc. The Darkness 2, for example, or Goldeneye: Reloaded, which to me shows exactly what is wrong with modern FPSs. Goldeneye, 1997, is excellent, with very well designed levels and game mechanics, endless replayability (I still play it occasionally, and I've had it since 1998), no QTEs, no unskippable cut scenes, etc. Then in 2011 Goldeneye: Reloaded came out (I never played the earlier Wii version), and it has QTEs, unskippable non-interactive cutscenes, a weapon carrying limit (I HATE this, and it's becoming ever more common on FPS games), recharging health, etc. It's much, much better graphically and sonically, but worse in every other way. Much worse.




lowenz wrote:Unreal = perfect synthesis of atmosphere (music + level design) and solid FPS gameplay.


I know what you mean, we all have games like that, that (to us) get most things right. With me, it's Perfect Dark, Timesplitters 3 (Future Perfect), Deus Ex, etc.

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 17:12

Kerr Avon wrote:Why don't you play it any more? Personally I play older FPS games as I prefer them to the newer types. I still think that some newer ones (say post 2004 to present day) are good, such as Crysis 1 and 2, Singularity, Portal 2, etc, but most FPSs from the last ten years or so seem to me to focus on the one things - great graphics (with little or no interactivity), too short, too easy, no friendly-fire so that you can happily spray your bullets and grenades where you like without worrying about hurting your allies, scripted non-interative unskippable scenes that remind you it's just a game, quick time events (press a certain button when prompted or you die), recharging health, etc. The Darkness 2, for example, or Goldeneye: Reloaded, which to me shows exactly what is wrong with modern FPSs. Goldeneye, 1997, is excellent, with very well designed levels and game mechanics, endless replayability (I still play it occasionally, and I've had it since 1998), no QTEs, no unskippable cut scenes, etc. Then in 2011 Goldeneye: Reloaded came out (I never played the earlier Wii version), and it has QTEs, unskippable non-interactive cutscenes, a weapon carrying limit (I HATE this, and it's becoming ever more common on FPS games), recharging health, etc. It's much, much better graphically and sonically, but worse in every other way. Much worse.


You've pretty much nailed why most of us stick with older games. I haven't played anything newer than Dead Space, and while that was a treat, it was more of an action shooter (but not hard or diverse enough to excel in that direction) than a survival horror game like System Shock 2, which is what I really wanted to get out of it. It sure had a lot of homages and references to SS2, though! Nothing else released since has really caught my eye, but I've also been busy working on my own stuff and playing Mechwarrior: Living Legends when I'm not.

I think there's more of us oldschool die-hards than people think, and I think most "newer" gamers who fostered the demand for easy street FPS design would appreciate the hard-as-balls oldschool games if they actually checked them out. This makes me hope (and believe) that some kind of oldschool gameplay resurgence is due sooner or later, where people start making really challenging games again (albeit still with an accessible, newbie-friendly easy mode or two, not to mention the hilarious cheat codes of yesteryear that were fun to use even when you weren't trying to bypass a difficult section).

Pretty much my litmus test for gameplay perfection is Descent/Descent II. You have not just "Braindead Easy," "Easy," and "Moderately Difficult" in the options (the latter of which is locked until you beat the game on "Easy" - lol), but a lot of difficulty levels, and all are selectable as soon as you install it. This gives you more granularity to how you enjoy the game, and gives you more rungs to scale on your own personal ladder for it. Trainee, Rookie, Hotshot, Ace, Insane. Trainee is a walk in the park for just about anyone, Rookie is a noticeable step up but still very forgiving, Hotshot is where it gets interesting, Ace is my personal favorite and very difficult, while Insane is just balls-to-the-wall chaos and I have only beaten the game once on this level, even though I've played it several dozen times at this point. THAT is what I'm talking about. And Descent doesn't even filter enemies by difficulty level or have randomized positioning or (much) scripting or amazing graphics! It's just compelling as hell gameplay. Not to mention the amazing zero-g 360-degree motion that few other games have even attempted, let alone done as well.

We need more games like Descent, damnit. Oh, and X-COM. Hard as shit and incredibly punishing, but you love every second of it because it is so engaging.
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UB_
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 17:32

Serious Sam BFE and Hard Reset of last year were totally fucking amazing. Bulletstorm was cool too.

Will say the opposite about Rage, Crysis 2, Singularity and especially the BoringShock games though. Eww
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User avatar Anreel
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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 28 May 2012, 21:35

Kerr Avon wrote:Why don't you play it any more? Personally I play older FPS games as I prefer them to the newer types. I still think that some newer ones (say post 2004 to present day) are good, such as Crysis 1 and 2, Singularity, Portal 2, etc, but most FPSs from the last ten years or so seem to me to focus on the one things - great graphics (with little or no interactivity), too short, too easy, no friendly-fire so that you can happily spray your bullets and grenades where you like without worrying about hurting your allies, scripted non-interative unskippable scenes that remind you it's just a game, quick time events (press a certain button when prompted or you die), recharging health, etc. The Darkness 2, for example, or Goldeneye: Reloaded, which to me shows exactly what is wrong with modern FPSs. Goldeneye, 1997, is excellent, with very well designed levels and game mechanics, endless replayability (I still play it occasionally, and I've had it since 1998), no QTEs, no unskippable cut scenes, etc. Then in 2011 Goldeneye: Reloaded came out (I never played the earlier Wii version), and it has QTEs, unskippable non-interactive cutscenes, a weapon carrying limit (I HATE this, and it's becoming ever more common on FPS games), recharging health, etc. It's much, much better graphically and sonically, but worse in every other way. Much worse.


I don't play Unreal anymore cos I'm not that interested in FPS. I've never been fan in the first place, I was always more interested in their visuals, level design and atmosphere and not in the gameplay.

Everything you said about modern games is truth of course. I liked Modern Warfare, but that formula worked only once for me - I don't want any more of it. Instead I rather replay for the x time some of my favorite older FPS like Shadow Warrior or No One Lives Forever. Now I'm playing Deus Ex on ps2, just because I've already replayed it on pc for 3 times lol.
Unreal I last replayed in 2008 to celebrate its 10th birthday. Come 2013 and I will maybe replay again to celebrate 15th.

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 23:46

I play it because, in addition to being a fun game on it's own, the Unreal/UT community is also a shining example of an involved, productive user-content/mod community. If you don't like something about the game, or merely want to spice things up, you don't have to wait until the original developers of the game get off their ass and feel like making some new maps or gameplay modes or weapons selections or anything of the sort - because you already have a dedicated base of people who make stuff! And it's not for profit, so you know the skilled work going into producing such things as models, maps and mods is only in it for the love of the game, and to make a fun and interesting alternative to stock content.

All of this is something I don't see in modern games as much, and it's a little bittersweet to reflect on; I'm glad this exists for U1/UT but then wonder just how long these communities will survive. It will be a sad day if they leave... :( Until then, though,

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 05 Jun 2012, 21:39

It must have been in late 1999, when I bought a copy of Unreal for some bucks (8 € converted). The 3D shooter games, I had played before were Doom 2, Heretic, Turok and Tomb Raider 3. Unreals graphics were much better, the first non cubic environment I had seen. But the good graphics had its price. Even with the intel 486, I had a very bad framerate. Interestingly, it were rather those 2d-sprites explosion and smoke effects, which jammed my pc.

Back then, I needed 1 or 2 months to get through it. I didn't use mouse and I didn't strafe either. I saved and loaded very often - I didn't want to lose health. Sometimes, it took me an eternity to plant 2 flakshells into a Skaarj. Probably that's, why I admired the sky isles levels - Krall are so retarded. Because of youth protection rules, my version shipped with green blood, without creature chunks, without headshot animations and with a "simplified" version of the Vortex Rikers.

Nowadays, I don't buy egoshooters anymore. Well, I am more happy not playing them. They make me dream bad. And newer ones are too realistic, linear and short - no wonder as how detailed the graphics are.

I can't remember, which has driven my attention to custom made singleplayer content. Probably, I was looking for a patch, when I came across the custom made maps stored at OldUnreal. Nowadays, I have played through all Unreal related singleplayer content, I have found at UnrealSP,OldUnreal and PlanetUnreal. Why did I do so (beside, it is for free and made on a beloved game)?

Is it the lighting? No. I always considered Unreal as too dark. On a shiny day you barely see anything on the screen.
Is it the graphics? Also no. Otherwise I wouldn't have played through all the old stuff at OldUnreal first.
Is it the atmosphere? No, for the same reasons.
Is it the story? Bah, I don't want to read.
Is it the music? Well, I love the music, but it's definetely not the main reason.
Is it the gameplay? Hm ... method of elemination says, it is. I think, it's majorly the monsters and weapons, which made me stay at Unreal.

I like, that you can evade the projectiles. I like, that Unreal is unreal - I don't want to kill humans. I like the AI. I like the concept behind ASMD, Eightball, Flak, Razorjack and Gesbio. I like the secondary fire option. I like, that each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. I like using the whole weapon arsenal - each weapon stays relevant for the whole game.

Like said before, I know everything now. And there were no big releases, since I joined UnrealSP. So replaying some stuff from time to time. Majorly Unreal itself. Recently I like to apply the following rule: Unreal difficulty, don't save, use one weapon only, don't care about ammo (AllAmmo cheat), never die, otherwise restart current level. I failed to survive with Flak and ASMD, but managed to get through with RTNP rocket launcher.(Skaarj are pussies, when you carry it, *past mothership laser system to open door* section excluded, how are you supposed to get through it unscathed?)

Thank you for your attention. Bye. *going back to lurking mode*

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 17 Jun 2012, 10:47

Unreal is the easiest way I can fuel my "mentally unhealthy" escapism... Practically anything I can imagine can be made in UnrealScript and UnrealED.

While I hide in the dark about my projects and such, I am quite active in all of them and when they come around to looking presentable I'll show them. In otherwords: "It's ready when it's ready."
“I am the dragon without a name...”

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 17 Jun 2012, 13:40

Draco Nihil wrote:"It's ready when it's ready."


The exact reason why I hate to give release dates for any of my projects. I've still got broken versions of Night's Edge, DoDWeapons, HL1Weapons, UT2004 & UT3Weapons, Postal2Weapons and CSSourceWeapons all laying around doing absolutely nothing. I've lost the source to half of them when my pc broke after I moved to uni and I could never get round to reimporting any of the models :/

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 20 Jun 2012, 21:36

For Single Player: I'm sticking to Unreal and various pre-current gen games, because nowadays, games are focused on MP. I miss the long, adventuristic SP campaigns. Today, now games dismiss SP as tutorial for MP. A plot where you start out unarmed and find supplies to survive is why I play Unreal today. And I'm enjoying the many custom map packs which keeps me wanting more and more.

For Multiplayer: MP games today are fast-paced and all have loadout options. Not that I have anything against the current gen when I say this, but there aren't many arena-based shooters(Halo is the only well-received one). I'm talking about where you start out with a simple weapon and have to go around finding other weapons, and other players took skill to go down. But, as with the above, these are my honest opinions.

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Subject: Re: Why do you still play Unreal?

Post Posted: 21 Jun 2012, 06:57

I've actually never played Unreal... not the first one anyway.

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