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A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

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Levelworm
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Subject: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 04:51

I have been playing Unreal for the last few days. So far, I have finished Unreal on hard, RTNP (the mod that includes the deleted scenes) on normal and Deja vu on normal. I'm quite confident that my skills have improved a lot, but there is always room for improvement, so let me ask the questions:

1. Do you guys dodge? I know dodging is useful in multiplayer, but I disabled dodging a long time ago as it's very easy to jump into lava or whatever hazards when dodging. And sometime I dodge when I do not want to. What do you think? Is it useful when you are playing on higher difficulties?

2. I'm still not very good at fighting multiple Skraajs, albeit that I love fighting them. My question is: When they dodge (the warriors do dodge a lot), do they choose the direction randomly? It seems to be the case, but I do find that sometime it's useful to fire at a biased direction, especially for the rocket launchers and Stinger secondary fire as the Skraajs will try to dodge most of the projectiles.

A last question, what's the best mod if I want some decent fights with Skraajs? ('am thinking about at least 20 of them in one level) The last few levels of Unreal are good, but too easy; same for RTNP; Deja vu is quite good, as in one of the temple levels I can fight loads of Skraajs ( at least 20 of them on Medium?). How about Battle for Napali? Actually I finished it a few years ago, guess it's time to revisit on higher difficulties.

Thanks in advance for indulging with this old Unreal player!
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 05:09

I dodge all the time, but I've mastered the controls and they feel like second nature to me at this point. I recommend turning dodging back on and getting used to the feel of it until you know just how much pressure to use for dodges and how much for general movement. I find I rarely ever accidentally dodge now.

When Skaarj dodge, they do so randomly as far as I can tell, picking either left or right. They will always dodge certain weapons, though, like direct-fire Eightball rockets, but don't dodge the unpredictable grenades. Some weapons, like the Stinger, will induce dodging randomly after several shots have been fired. If you get really familiar with the weapons and AI, you get a sense of what makes them tick, and you can even exploit their behavior (force Skaarj to dodge into a corner, then fill it with grenades).

A good combat-heavy map I always enjoy is Unreal Zero: Cat Bombs / Cats 2. It's goofy and doesn't really have much story, but it's a blast to play. I'm sure you will end up facing a shit-ton of Skaarj in that map before too long.
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 05:12

Levelworm wrote:How about Battle for Napali? Actually I finished it a few years ago, guess it's time to revisit on higher difficulties.

Really? I would love to see a link :wink:

but yeah. as far as combat with skaarj goes, skaarj tower shadow and fire is probably your best bet. Absolutely loaded with the buggers.
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Levelworm
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 06:00

TheIronKnuckle wrote:
Levelworm wrote:How about Battle for Napali? Actually I finished it a few years ago, guess it's time to revisit on higher difficulties.

Really? I would love to see a link :wink:

but yeah. as far as combat with skaarj goes, skaarj tower shadow and fire is probably your best bet. Absolutely loaded with the buggers.


Oops, operation napali, not battle for napali (pity that it didn't get finished, wish we could see some maps though). BTW thanks for the recommendation.
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Levelworm
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 06:08

Waffnuffly wrote:I dodge all the time, but I've mastered the controls and they feel like second nature to me at this point. I recommend turning dodging back on and getting used to the feel of it until you know just how much pressure to use for dodges and how much for general movement. I find I rarely ever accidentally dodge now.

When Skaarj dodge, they do so randomly as far as I can tell, picking either left or right. They will always dodge certain weapons, though, like direct-fire Eightball rockets, but don't dodge the unpredictable grenades. Some weapons, like the Stinger, will induce dodging randomly after several shots have been fired. If you get really familiar with the weapons and AI, you get a sense of what makes them tick, and you can even exploit their behavior (force Skaarj to dodge into a corner, then fill it with grenades).

A good combat-heavy map I always enjoy is Unreal Zero: Cat Bombs / Cats 2. It's goofy and doesn't really have much story, but it's a blast to play. I'm sure you will end up facing a shit-ton of Skaarj in that map before too long.


Thanks. Yeah I guess I need more practice to avoid accidental dodging.

As for Skraaj dodging, the only thing I can do now is to force them running closely to a wall so that they will always dodge to the other direction. However, they don't dodge grenades, which is very good. Punching them with 3-4 grenades probably will kill most of the medium Skraajs.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it out. Currently I'm replaying RTNP on Hard. Due to steam statistics, I've been playing Unreal for 53 hours for the last few days. Truly an addicting game!
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 06:12

For Skaarj fights I would recommend my own Xidia Gold (you'll recognize a couple of levels if you played ONP, as ONP used them, though the originals from Xidia are harder). Deja Vu has some Skaarj action as well, though if you're looking for something more recent you can also try Zephon (the patched version). Jazzy's Project Xenome is also notable for having lots of Skaarj appearances. As for other big packs, Seven Bullets features some close-quarter Skaarj Trooper combat in the first two levels but the Skaarj are largely absent from the rest of the campaign. If you're looking for smaller Skaarj-prone adventures, you can't go wrong with The Last Fortress, Tower of Shrakitha, or Hexephet. Those last three are shorter but are among the highest rated on this site.

As for combat style, well...it's a shooter so simply a matter of acquired style. I don't dodge as frequently as other players I know. What works for me is getting used to the weapons. Things like refire time, projectile speed, ect. I find that I often fire indirectly at targets nowadays (Skaarj especially) and make use of walls and ceilings for ricocheting weapons. Some of the more gonzo ones like the biorifle are harder to master but can be the most powerful since the enemy AI is less likely to counter those, I've noticed.

Levelworm
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 07:02

Mister_Prophet wrote:For Skaarj fights I would recommend my own Xidia Gold (you'll recognize a couple of levels if you played ONP, as ONP used them, though the originals from Xidia are harder). Deja Vu has some Skaarj action as well, though if you're looking for something more recent you can also try Zephon (the patched version). Jazzy's Project Xenome is also notable for having lots of Skaarj appearances. As for other big packs, Seven Bullets features some close-quarter Skaarj Trooper combat in the first two levels but the Skaarj are largely absent from the rest of the campaign. If you're looking for smaller Skaarj-prone adventures, you can't go wrong with The Last Fortress, Tower of Shrakitha, or Hexephet. Those last three are shorter but are among the highest rated on this site.


Thanks for the recommendations. I had Zephon installed and played for a couple levels and it's true that it has many Skraaj encounters, but the architecture is quite alien to me so I'm going to put it off for a while, still a great mod though. Probably will play it in next cycle. I played Xidia a few years ago, but stuck at so,ewhere in the middle, will pick it up after finishing current play. Tower of Shrakitha is extremely good, will replay tomorrow. That said, I suddenly realized that I'm going to run out of Unreal mods :(

As for combat style, well...it's a shooter so simply a matter of acquired style. I don't dodge as frequently as other players I know. What works for me is getting used to the weapons. Things like refire time, projectile speed, ect. I find that I often fire indirectly at targets nowadays (Skaarj especially) and make use of walls and ceilings for ricocheting weapons. Some of the more gonzo ones like the biorifle are harder to master but can be the most powerful since the enemy AI is less likely to counter those, I've noticed.


Biorifle actually is fun as it stuns the Skraajs a lot. Razorjack is good for headshot but I never mastered this weapon, BTW do you guys think the secondary fire is useful? It's fun to score a head-shot with a semi-guided razor around the corner, but considering I can achieve that with the primary fire bouncing off the wall, maybe it's not very useful. So far, all of the mods and the original games provide the players with abundant ('d say too much) ammo for rocket launcher and flak cannon, which is good for my sick hobby.
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UB_
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 12:08

It's Skaarj not Skraaj :)

RazorJack secondary > non-boss killer
End of story.
Last edited by UB_ on 19 Aug 2012, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 16:56

UBerserker wrote:It's Skaarj not Skraaj :)

RazorJack secondary > anti-boss killer
End of story.


Anti-boss killer =
a) something against a boss killer: or
b) a killer of an anti boss (although this interpretation needs a bit of imagination).

So what UB meant was that razorjack secondary is great against bosses. :wink:

End of story?

UB_
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 17:03

OH I MEANT non-boss killer sorry

Also Project Zephon killer.
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2012, 20:03

Wonder what an anti boss looks like :lol:
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012, 04:13

I think the AI kinda bugs when it comes to the razorblade alt. Sometimes they seem to dodge it and other times they are oblivious. I will say that mastering alt blade piloting was one of the last things from the arsenal I got a handle on, and even now I'll only risk guiding them for like a second of flight time. Primary is pretty much fine for any enemy in the game.

redeye
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012, 04:25

I have had dodging disabled since day one, online or off, I really hate it and do fine without it.

shoot skaarj with the ....can't even think of the gun name, has the blue shards, use secondary and keep backing up, same with the flack, both guns always shoot skaarj close range. (or sniper with headshots) and double enforcer is good till they come close range.

What i do with the blade gun is distance down hallways , either bounce off walls or go for the headshots.Then by the time they arrive you can use a puff of air and kill them.The secondary is good to push enemies off cliffs and things, splash damage for tentacles, and the regular fire against gasbags the razorjack slice and dice those things easily.

I have never figured out what weapon does best against the slith, nothing seems to damage them more.
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UB_
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012, 10:03

Against Slith = ASMD secondary fire.

Mister_Prophet wrote:I think the AI kinda bugs when it comes to the razorblade alt. Sometimes they seem to dodge it and other times they are oblivious. I will say that mastering alt blade piloting was one of the last things from the arsenal I got a handle on, and even now I'll only risk guiding them for like a second of flight time. Primary is pretty much fine for any enemy in the game.


AI never reacts to any of the blades, so it's only up to you guiding the blades to the enemy.
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Subject: Re: A couple of combat problems that puzzled me for years

Post Posted: 20 Aug 2012, 11:28

UBerserker wrote:OH I MEANT non-boss killer sorry

Ah, ok ... then I agree completely. The razorjack is a weapon which I started using extensively only late in my Unreal career but I never use the secondary fire mode.
Actually, I like to use the RJ against Warlords, and most certainly in relatively confined areas.

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