UT + Oldskool + Unreal crash.

[UB_]

don't think there was any lighting, all the levels were just one ambient light level. Fairly poor textures aswell.

If there's no lighting, then you're seeing monochrome.
There were also decent textures, some being extremely good.
Back to topic.

[redeye]

"There was nothing about it that was remotely 'unreal'"

Why companies do this, is like a bait and switch stole my money.

But at nalicity when I made maps for an old game to look the same, everybody (elites) bitched me out for not being innovative blah blah blah and make it like it wasn't supposed to look like the old game.

So there ya go, pretty much people screwed themselves and then they change it around to make it "better" . This proves my side of that battle and then I bought Unreal2 with great expectation, then to rub salt into the wound they changed the dang file extensions made it incompatible, now it is all for nothing.

I really wanted for people to get involved making U2 levels since the bot control is awesome.
Once again no interest accept a bunch of nay sayers here.

But !! if people only knew how good it could be, one could make a SP pack that would be a great way to interact with pawns and make the game better than any other version of Unreal.
It's got voice keyed in, you can make the pawns do a dance if you wanted or just about anything. No simple patrols, > next tag stuff, you can make them open doors, talk (audio voice), and animation built in, all at once as if they really know what they are doing. That is just one simple simple thing .

ahh well.

[cronodevir]

I think the reason people don't want to do it for U2 is there are not really the same art assets, a big reason why Unreal/UT was fun to map for was the amount of materials you had to use. You didn't have to make your own textures or anything.

[redeye]

I think the reason people don't want to do it for U2 is there are not really the same art assets, a big reason why Unreal/UT was fun to map for was the amount of materials you had to use. You didn't have to make your own textures or anything.

U2 is packed full of stuff, and a pile of pawns, bunch of pawns. hmm sec.

ah damn phtobucket i had screenshots off all the pawns next to each other , well anyway I know with U2, people could make some of the best damn games around for SP.

Games tha you could make things happen by how you react , type of games, and it wouldn't be all that hard at all. Just notepad running, and configure your own script for a pawn almost instantly just save over your AI file, and you don't even need to rebuild.

and the editor didn't crash, I know what to do to make it crash, but is easy to not do those things.

[cronodevir]

Maybe the era of single player map packs is dying? What modern games really have a community around single player map projects?

[redeye]

Ya I hear ya there, nobody will tackle UT3 or UDK like we had with Unreal. Everything now is about making meshes or something.Unless you hire people that went to graphics schools so that weeds out 99% of the crowd.

[Semfry]

Maybe the era of single player map packs is dying? What modern games really have a community around single player map projects?

The lack of major Single Player content for most newer games (FPS at least) is a combination of issues. First, content for modern games is far more difficult for lone designers to make to any accepted modern standard, there are a few dedicated/talented enough to do it, or who have a team big and skilled enough to do so, but it isn't practical for most. Also, the rise of indie games has replaced traditional game modding to some degree; now that it's practical to do so (in some ways more practical than designing for a pre-set modern game), a lot of people who would originally make mods now work on entirely new games instead. There's also the way that a lot of developers have become actively hostile to mods (as opposed to just neutral at worst like they were back at the height of it) because it would cut into their DLC and map pack revenue streams, so even if they don't outright stop modding they at least take steps to make it intentionally awkward. Thankfully there are still some developers who fully support it, and, while I'm not sure "blank slate" modding will ever be fully practical again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of resurgence of user SP content soon once someone nails a user created content system with the right balance between intuitiveness and power.

Edit: I'll also add in the personal stance that many modern shooters have the issue that there simply isn't really anything you can actually do with them; most only have one or two enemy types (Man With Gun, and maybe a Tank or Helicopter or something if you're lucky), and homogeneous guns+weapon limits and regenerating health that, when combined together, essentially make traditional "level design" almost meaningless as long as there's enough cover to hide behind and some guns to grab.

[redeye]

The thing about the AI with U2 is it's not code but pre made code, so you don't need to know programming. You can make the pawns switch attitude on the fly with a trigger, friend or foe.

Make them patrol super easy and refined paths, stop and do things, animations, but rather than placing an actor you just edit the notepad text, stop, wave, open door animation, goto sleep, wake up, have certain weapons, toss weapons, a number of things and is very powerful. But the whole text is just that, no code, I just edited the new AI, saved over the file (for that pawns text name-tag) hit save, test map, no rebuilding,

Then have notepad running in the taskbar, test map, quit game, click on notepad edit, save AI file, repeat. I mean what takes such picky exasperating time consuming things to do for pawns in UT then end up with the bots or pawns getting stuck or being distracted. In U2 they follow a very precise command and pathnode, and orders or whatever you want them to do.

In that way one could make a more real life living map with a story that made sense and not rely on hard coded anomalies.
Then it has terrain and meshes, better sky, and that voice system just key in the recorded voice file and have the pawns talk for a given event.

it is all quite awesome..................but.

I mean the way you guys make maps for the old game, using U2 would be just soooo friggen so professional.

[cronodevir]

Maybe the era of single player map packs is dying? What modern games really have a community around single player map projects?

The lack of major Single Player content for most newer games (FPS at least) is a combination of issues. First, content for modern games is far more difficult for lone designers to make to any accepted modern standard, there are a few dedicated/talented enough to do it, or who have a team big and skilled enough to do so, but it isn't practical for most. Also, the rise of indie games has replaced traditional game modding to some degree; now that it's practical to do so (in some ways more practical than designing for a pre-set modern game), a lot of people who would originally make mods now work on entirely new games instead. There's also the way that a lot of developers have become actively hostile to mods (as opposed to just neutral at worst like they were back at the height of it) because it would cut into their DLC and map pack revenue streams, so even if they don't outright stop modding they at least take steps to make it intentionally awkward. Thankfully there are still some developers who fully support it, and, while I'm not sure "blank slate" modding will ever be fully practical again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of resurgence of user SP content soon once someone nails a user created content system with the right balance between intuitiveness and power.

Edit: I'll also add in the personal stance that many modern shooters have the issue that there simply isn't really anything you can actually do with them; most only have one or two enemy types (Man With Gun, and maybe a Tank or Helicopter or something if you're lucky), and homogeneous guns+weapon limits and regenerating health that, when combined together, essentially make traditional "level design" almost meaningless as long as there's enough cover to hide behind and some guns to grab.

I am with you on that. I think what would be really nice, but I don't know if it will ever happen is the engine for Unreal going opensource, or someone making their own engine that is capable of running unreal, similar to OpenMorrowind. You would have a platform that you can easily create content for, and retain that older school feel. The game play of unreal requires it.

There are other engines [too many to list] for the FPS genera, but none of them really have assets. So making any project requires you to come up with your own art and sounds and music, as well as enemy themes and all of that other jazz. Which I think would put people off. With unreal you already have all of that, every pawn and texture and what not has its purpose and its reasons for being already set, you just have to build the scenario.

Then again, the source engine doesn't have many single player campaigns for it either. I was actually disappointed at how unused the HL2 engine was when it came to single player content. It seemed like a decent engine and set of assets to make something out of.

[TheIronKnuckle]

I don't understand exactly why EPIC hasn't open sourced it's old engines either. I guess they're still making enough money off them on steam and the like. Still, there's no reason they can't turn the entire codebase over to the community and retain the intellectual property rights. 227 could probably be happening a whole lot faster if there wasn't the legal issues surrounding closed source (Absolutely no disrespect to Smirf - he's doing a fine job). Of course I've stopped paying attention to the wider unreal community and only regularly visit these forums, so I'm not sure that the community is big enough to make a difference either way.

But seriously, turning over the source code to the unreal editor and the engine would be great. We could patch up engine stability, increase the node limit, improve efficiency, take maximum advantage of modern hardware etc. Oh how I wish for a more predictable BSP tree

[gopostal]

I've heard several discussions and they all center around the UCC part of the engine. It's thought that UCC's core didn't change radically (aside from obvious speed/streamlining improvements). Releasing Unreal's source would give you the keys to Unreal Engine 3 and that's still a money maker.

I dunno, this sort of discussion is above my pay grade but I've heard this said by several people who know far more about game design.

[TheIronKnuckle]

UCC not changing much makes sense, as its the unrealscript compiler and unless the language has undergone major revision (I'm not in the know here, I don't code uscript much) then it shouldn't have changed either. I don't really follow how having the source to the old engine would give us Uengine 3 automatically though. I suppose EPIC never started from scratch with engine increments and there's still some core stuff marked by a comment from Cliffy B and dated 1997 hanging around in the modern product.

But it's way above my paygrade too This is all speculations

[UB_]

It's true, literally newest Unreal engines have code from the previous ones.

[ebd]

If there was sufficient documentation available regarding unrealscript and it's bytecode it would be possible for some very dedicated fans to make their own implementation of unrealscript and UCC. I suspect documents on unrealscript's bytecode were never released and will never be released for that reason.

[TheIronKnuckle]

How big is ucc.exe? (I don't have it on me). If it's less than 3 meg I'd guess it'd be feasible to reverse engineer, disassemble, etc