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Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

For gameplay advice and broader discussion of single-player Unreal including custom maps, mods and mutations that alter the game.

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User avatar pl1982
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Subject: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 21:42

Hi there,

Long-time Unreal/UT fanatic. Been playing the game since it was released and do so every second year or so. However, only recently have I decided to check out all the awesome new SP campaigns and maps, so I just have a question or two for the community. Thank you in advance.

1. First question might be strange, but is about the engine. Obviously Unreal and UT share the same engine, so what is the recommended way of installing and running these campaigns/maps. Must I use one or the other or can I just use UT and install the campaigns/maps in there? Or would the campaigns/maps actually say what game they are made for? The reason I ask this is just to make it simpler for myself: i.e. if I can just stick to say UT and use that for all the campaigns/maps.

2. Is it safe to assume that the 'custom map reviews' and 'upcoming maps' sections of UnrealSP main site covers pretty much every Unreal 1 engine campaign/maps worth knowing about? I plan on becoming a more active member of the Unreal community here and it would be good to know that I pretty much only need to keep tabs on UnrealSP for all the Unreal single player goodness.

Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully answer this.

Regards,
pl1982

User avatar makemeunreal
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 21:55

First of all. There are maps/campaigns made for UT and Unreal.
Most of the campaigns won't require any special version, but I recommend you to use the 227oldunrealpatch.
As for UT, use OldSkool mod.
Installation.
Your downloaded file will look like this:
-maps
-system
-textures
etc....then, your only task is to copy the content to their place like maps will go to maps(under your Unreal directory.)


If it looks different use this:
(You'll have to copy the files to their place)
.u ->system
.unr ->maps
.utx ->textures
.uax ->sounds
.umx ->music
.int ->system
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 07 Apr 2014, 22:38

pl1982 wrote:1. First question might be strange, but is about the engine. Obviously Unreal and UT share the same engine, so what is the recommended way of installing and running these campaigns/maps. Must I use one or the other or can I just use UT and install the campaigns/maps in there? Or would the campaigns/maps actually say what game they are made for? The reason I ask this is just to make it simpler for myself: i.e. if I can just stick to say UT and use that for all the campaigns/maps.
Most maps and campaigns state which version they require. Some campaigns would run on either (or if they specifically say they are for Unreal 224/225 or above). Some require UT (like ONP, 7B...). There are also others that require Unreal 227 and do not work with UT. Except in the case of 227, it is usually less about the engine and more about the content (does the map require botpack or OldSkool?).

A lot of Unreal Tournament single player relies on the OldSkool mod. It is notoriously difficult to work with and can have some undesirable side effects for players. If the option is available to do so, I recommend using Unreal 226 or 227 instead.

The Unreal 227 patch is an unofficial patch (http://www.oldunreal.com/oldunrealpatches.html) that adds a lot of new features and bug fixes, like new renderers, emitters, static meshes, and other things. Many of these new features (renderers, shading...) can be disabled if you prefer, and others are up to mappers to use (or not). A very vocal minority harbors a lot of ire for this patch but they don't seem to have any specific reasons for it. A lot of new content targets this platform as if provides the best tools and most features for mappers and modders.
pl1982 wrote:2. Is it safe to assume that the 'custom map reviews' and 'upcoming maps' sections of UnrealSP main site covers pretty much every Unreal 1 engine campaign/maps worth knowing about? I plan on becoming a more active member of the Unreal community here and it would be good to know that I pretty much only need to keep tabs on UnrealSP for all the Unreal single player goodness.
Yes and no. It is a great resource and an excellent starting place, but it isn't complete and hasn't been updated in a while. I think there are a bunch of new reviews that haven't been posted yet because ividyon wanted to finish working on the new version of the USP website first, but I don't recall the exact details off hand.

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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 08:41

You will find this post useful
http://www.newbiesplayground.net/dogfor ... f=1&t=3095
It is specifically about combining both games.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 09:05

What you see here in this thread is that people will always express their opinions on platform choice but to experience the gametype you need to be open to running all variations of Unreal and UT if you want to play everything that's been released for singleplayer. The UT packs people often cite here as "the big ones" are UT centric via Oldskool mutator, though most levels that exist work fine on Unreal 226, which is the latest official patch version. UT's best patch version for SP, while we're at it, is 436, as patch 451 causes a lot of problems for SPs made for UT. Campaigns made for Unreal 227 (unofficial community patch) will require that patch, though they are only recently starting to appear in serious number.

The breakdown:

-Unreal 226: Unreal as it stands at its most up to date, will play most of the SP levels ever made and the ones featured on this site. Will not run UT centric levels or Unreal 227 levels.

-UT 436: Most widely used version of UT for SP, will play all levels compatible for Unreal 226 and UT. Will not run Unreal 227 levels. You will need Oldskool, the mutator. Coders will complain about Oldskool till they are blue in the face but for players 99% of the time it is just a useful mutator for playing SP levels, though COOP can be twitchy (it should be said that most UT centric campaigns have weak COOP experiences anyway, though this is not always the case).

-Unreal 227: Fan made patch that will run levels made for Unreal 227, most everything that works for Unreal 226, and some UT stuff (might require alternate mods).

-Return to Na Pali: Typically, stuff that runs the .Upak file from the mission pack. RTNP SP levels are extremely rare and most campaigns that feature RTNP stuff either include .UPak material by default to make things easier or have certain RTNP files bundled in other ways.
Last edited by Mister_Prophet on 08 Apr 2014, 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 09:56

UT version 455? Do you mean 451 or am I missing something here?

Because last time I tried playing 451 as a client it forced every texture (including surfaces in the level) in the game to have the bMasked property and caused everything from crashes to serious performance drops. I never heard of a 455 before...

The only major thing that really disrupts UT co-op is the inventory chain bug, a fix for that would do wonders.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 10:22

Yes, I mean 451. Mistyped that. In short, as someone who has had to troubleshoot for players using my campaigns on that patch for years I will just say that it just isn't good for SP.

User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 14:54

Hi pl1982! Always nice to see new faces join the fray and leave lurkerdom. :D

Regarding your questions,
1)
  • Unreal 226 and below is the original game which has had many great map packs created for it, many of which you can find reviewed on our main site.
  • Unreal Tournament can play map packs from Unreal 226 and below as well as new UT-specific map packs featuring more content, as it was a better and more advanced mapping platform than Unreal before 227 came along.
  • Unreal 227 is a new unofficial patch for Unreal which was introduced fairly recently. It has little exclusive content right now, but it sports many new features for modders and map makers, including static meshes, particle systems, distance fog, optimized lighting, AI and many other things, which can cause some problems with older content, but enable many new creations. If you want to enter Unreal modding/mapping, this would be your place to go.

You're best off with 2 installs; Unreal 227 and Unreal Tournament. That should cover like 99% of available SP content.

2)
I'm pretty confident in saying that we've reviewed the most interesting and high-quality maps available for Unreal and UT. While we encourage you to browse other sites like our brothers at OldUnreal, and there are always hidden gems which are lesser known (most of which you can find on OU's downloads page), the most prominent and polished releases are usually featured at UnrealSP.org. Also, an extensive reworking of the main site is coming up which allows you to sort through reviews by scores, alphabet etc, as well as adding other neat features (and finally replacing the ancient site layout), so you've got that to look forward to!

Draco Nihil wrote:<snip>

I'm glad you wrapped the rant into spoiler tags, because I think it's out of place in a thread like this. We're dealing with a newcomer wondering about the differences between various versions of the engine that apply to him; I feel that it's not the best idea to voice your displeasure with a bunch of highly technical and in-depth issues here that - as legitimate as your concerns may be - are only relevant to advanced (native) developers and server owners, much less the end user.

Please always keep in mind that Unreal has a very small and delicate community, and any newcomers should be met with quick & basic advice, and should not be swayed by lingering 227 drama and issues that do not specifically concern the general experience with the patch.

Everyone: I'm going to split off the 227 rant business to a new thread later, so keep your future posts to a single subject.
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

User avatar pl1982
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 18:49

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. So it seems the mods are quite specific to the game and version. I'll start poking around and playing with them. Just one more question regarding 227: I am a big fan of Kentie's D10 renderer and ofc it is not compatible with 227, so I want to ask: how does the renderers in 227 compare? Anyone who has some experience can tell me whether it's better to go 226 + Kentie's renderer or 227 with its own renderers? I suppose though, depending on the mod this doesn't matter really; i.e. if the mod requires 227 then using Kenties simply is not an option.

Thanks again for all the feedback, I will soak it all up and dive into the mods this evening.

User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 18:58

I believe D3D9 and OpenGL in 227 do just fine. Also, somewhere on OldUnreal two buggy versions of D3D10 for 227i float around, IIRC. They're nothing special compared to the original used on 226 U1 or 436 UT, so for 227 stick to D3D9 or OpenGL and you'll do fine. :)
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User avatar Draco Nihil
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 19:15

D3D9 and OpenGL are the most compatible renderers for Unreal, bar none. The d3d10drv is simply for those that have driver troubles with D3D8-9 or OpenGL. Given how newer GPU's and their drivers have been fairing, OpenGL tends to take a serious hit on the windows side of things compared to linux. And D3D8 and 9 also end up with a fair share of bugs due to a major focus on D3D10\11

There was supposed to be a d3d10drv for 227 but due to miscommunication between kentie and Smirftsch this never happened.
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User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 19:57

http://www.klankaos.com/downloads/D3D10Drv227.rar .:..:'s version for 227i. Like I said, a faulty implementation, but it's there.
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User avatar pl1982
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 20:10

Thanks for the feedback. Also looking forward to the new site design. Would be nice to have some detailed filtering of the map/campaign database. It really is awesome that so long after Unreal/UT was released, there are still communities like UnrealSP, keeping it alive.

User avatar pl1982
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 23:06

So yeah, just installed Xidia Gold (and its patch) into modded UT (with enhanced texture pack from OU, thanks guys!) and I am loving it. Very cool mod so far.

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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie: custom maps and engine question

Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014, 23:09

Give 7 Bullets a try once you're done, it's a great sequel. :tup:

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