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ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

For gameplay advice and broader discussion of single-player Unreal including custom maps, mods and mutations that alter the game.

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User avatar SkaarjSniper
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 12 Mar 2015, 23:09

My top 10 were:
1 - Chizra
2 - Bluff Eversmoking
3 - ISVDeck1
4 - Na Pali Haven
5 - Dark Arena
6 - Nali Castle
7 - The Sunspire
8 - Rrajigar Mine
9 - ISVKran Decks 3 and 2
10 - Extreme Lab

Good game.

User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 13 Mar 2015, 00:00

113 pages... :shake:
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

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User avatar Rarsonic
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 13 Mar 2015, 00:12

Well, there were over 60 candidates starting at 20 points each. :P
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 16:20

First of all a big thanks to those players who played through this elimination game almost from start to finish. I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially once the reasons for hurting and healing were given. These past 8 months really gave me a lot more insight into the game, and made me change my opinion about some maps. (the initial top 10 maps I listed looks a bit different now)

About my equalisation sessions. The map I wanted to win from the beginning was Darkening (even though I consider Bluff the absolute best map - but Bluff had been the winner before (I heard) and I didn't really see the point in going through the whole session for the same result). Darkening was my choice because this is the only map about which my feelings had changed so drastically over all these years, from an irritable map to the map with possibly the best gameplay of the whole series (personal opinion). However I had gathered that many players disliked Darkening so much that I doubted it would stand a chance ... so I hurt Darkening immediately and seriously to see how many would stand up immediately. Unfortunately due to the joint account incident (+ time infringement) which hardly caused any reaction, I quit the game, and after a similar incident which then did bring the general frowning, I re-entered the game only to have to restart my Hurt Darkening sessions. I had calculated that if Darkening did stand a chance, I could have repaired the damage without having to expose my "system". As it turned out, the support for Darkening was there and the decision was made: Darkening was my nr 1. However, I had not taken into account that I wouldn't be able to vote for 2 weeks in December so I had to start healing Darkening which was going to be slow .. so ... hurting the other top maps at a much too early stage was necessary. My absence in January was totally unforeseen (this game lasted 8 months which makes it logical that something unforeseen was bound toi happen, but I didn't expect so I had to build a buffer for Darkening-which luckily saved Darkening). But when I came back the only resort I had was to equalise again. I realise that this must have been a bit irritating (sorry about that) but it as all for a just cause (and the circumstances kind of forced my hand).

Now about the game; 8 months is too bloody long: with 60 maps and 20 voters, it should have lasted around 60 days (-20 points each day = 1 map) but once we got down to only 10 voters (some days even less) progress was too slow.

Therefore: a couple ideas for the future

  • Limit the number of maps to ± 40 (or to a number wich allows the end to end in about 3 months - taking into account the number of players)
  • There should be a minimum of players who commit themselves to playing until the end (and not faked commitment)
  • I agree with the proposed rule that only players with a minimum of useful posts should be allowed into the game
  • And even more so, no new entrants as of 2 weeks after the game starts (for example)
  • I agree with the proposed rule of not being allowed to hurt or heal the same map twice in a row (although once we get down to 10 that rule should be applicable any more)
  • Strict application from the beginning of the time rules (Hellscrag and I broke those rules once or twice but these were circumstational accidents and didn't influence the rest of the game) + every entrant should inform the group what his time settings are.
  • No joint accounts at any time (OK, I gave my account to my daughter in December to prevent Darkening for being eliminated at that time, but NOT in January - I'm tempted to even dissallow this, but perhaps this is going a bit too far since it can't really be checked anyway).

BTW: I can't remember exactly when I decided for 100% that I would be helping Darkening but my first post already had 2 hints showing that Darkening ws my top map, later on I decided that the second hint was too clear and I edited that post (once or twice even) and gave a less obvious hint (but still it was a spoiler).

Edit: Oops, almost forgot to mention that should Darkening have been eliminated at any time, then I would have supported Bluff, which is why I didn't eliminate Bluff when I had the opportunity, and tried to vote in such a way that I would't give an opportunity to eliminate Bluff (although once I was going to but changed my mind shortly before voting).

User avatar Rarsonic
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 16:48

We could try this out now with the soundtrack. :P
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User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 17:48

ENOUGH OF THESE GAMES.
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 18:08

Some people took this game way too seriously, nothing was even proved in the end and it didn't produce any content. This should have been just a simple, relaxed, fun game but it turned into an angry, red-faced Brute.

I other words, if another one of these things were to occur then I would (probably) not participate (especially if the "not being allowed to hurt or heal the same map twice in a row" rule went into place).

Though I do like the soundtrack idea.

Just for posterity, here are the maps I would have in top 10 if I could:

1. The Sunspire
2. Serpent Canyon
3. Gateway to Na Pali
4. Glathriel Village (part 2)
5. Inside UMS Prometheus
6. Na Pali Haven
7. Glathriel Village (part 1)
8. Temple of Vandora
9. Harobed Village
10. Gala's Peak

(UBerserker will probably have a seizure, but oh well :P)

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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 21:50

Rarsonic wrote:We could try this out now with the soundtrack. :P

haha, that would mean I have to listen to every single track (frankly there are only 2 I can actively remember)
UBerserker wrote:ENOUGH OF THESE GAMES.

Ow, come of it - if there's an interest, why not? (BTW I do agree if you add:", at least until after a few (many) months")

@SteadZ: wow I didn't realise Serpent Canyon is so high on your list :tup:

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 14 Mar 2015, 22:19

Just many months from now and on or make a new forum section for these constantly bumped threads.
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User avatar Hellscrag
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 00:15

I suppose, as the originator of this game, I should be offering some kind of concluding thought. I don't have much to say, other than that, had I known it would last this long, I never would have started it! I think I managed to vote pretty much every day other than a couple of days over the Christmas period.

I don't really agree with SteadZ that it became an "angry, red-faced brute". I enjoyed it for the most part. Compared to previous attempts, though, it did seem awfully difficult to make any progress with the game. salsaSkaarj's equalising sessions may have had something to do with this, turning the natural divergence of scores into a painful war of attrition at times. More than any previous time, it did seem like the only way any remotely controversial map would get knocked out was if several people ganged up on it.

I look at this sort of game in quite a purist way and therefore don't really approve of tactical voting. I always feel that you should hurt the map or group of maps that you really feel deserves to go out next, rather than targeting the more powerful opposition.

Obviously I would have liked Bluff Eversmoking to win. To me, it kicks more or less every other Unreal map into touch. Yes, I know, its gameplay may not be the most finely honed, but I don't go into Unreal just looking for a fighting challenge. I like to experience a living, breathing world and feel some emotional connection to it. More than any other retail map, I think Bluff, with its non-linear layout, diversity of locations and engaging sub-plots delivers this in spades.

I'd join in a hurt/heal for the soundtrack, but maybe after a few weeks' rest! I'd like to hear, though, what sort of criteria anyone would propose to use to pick their favourites. Also, how would you define the list to start with? Retail music? Retail music + complete/used beta music? Retail music + all beta music including unfinished bits/duplicates?
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 15 Mar 2015, 10:42

Hellscrag wrote:I look at this sort of game in quite a purist way and therefore don't really approve of tactical voting. I always feel that you should hurt the map or group of maps that you really feel deserves to go out next, rather than targeting the more powerful opposition.

I disagree completely. What you are proposing isn't interactive at all and boils down to everyone preparing an ordered list and then counting once. Also, If your lowest ranking map isn't losing, the natural thing to do would be to hurt it AND heal maps with less points (even if that is another of your least favourite maps). The point I'm trying to make is that as soon as many maps come into play, because you're not only only going to try and make map x win or map y lose, decisions have to be made and as you call it "wars of attrition" are bound to happen. It's the interaction (for me) which makes the game interesting.

Hellscrag wrote:I'd like to hear, though, what sort of criteria anyone would propose to use to pick their favourites. Also, how would you define the list to start with? Retail music? Retail music + complete/used beta music? Retail music + all beta music including unfinished bits/duplicates?

That's a difficult one. It won't be easy to dissociate a track from the map (or maps) in which it is used. So if a map sucks, this could influence the track's rating. For me it would be easy, my memory is so bad I wouldn't know which track was used where. But I do consider it important that a track fits a map with its gameplay (soundscape, atmospheric, hectic, etc...).

SteadZ wrote:Some people took this game way too seriously, nothing was even proved in the end and it didn't produce any content. This should have been just a simple, relaxed, fun game but it turned into an angry, red-faced Brute.

I'm with Hellscrag on this: I saw no angry red-faced Brute and the only seriousness for me was reacting to votes in order to help my maps.
BTW producing content wasn't the point or did I miss something? And come to think of it, you can't really ignore how much content was produced in terms of what people liked and disliked about the maps.

User avatar Legendslayer222
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 18:13

What an interesting game. At least, from the perspective of someone who only arrived a month after it finished and could see the whole thing in one go. :)
The top maps are good picks, which isn't surprising with how many good maps Unreal has for one reason or another. The only big surprise was seeing how many people loved the Darkening, which is a level that didn't stick out for me at all when playing through before.
It was a good opportunity for me to think about the levels of Unreal individually and compare their strengths and flaws. It has also, perhaps inevitably, made me want to play through Unreal and RTNP again! (currently at Bluff)
For those curious, I would have put Na Pali Haven at the top. I find that level a pure joy to play. I'm glad it was at least the last level to not make it into the top 5. :P

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 16 Apr 2015, 21:25

Legendslayer222 wrote:The only big surprise was seeing how many people loved the Darkening, which is a level that didn't stick out for me at all when playing through before.

You weren't the only one surprised, and the first times I played The Darkening it was far from being one of my favourites, in fact in the beginning it was probably one of my least favourite maps. But over the years my opinion about this map has changed drastically.
Anyway, I wouldn't really state that many people loved it. At the end of the game there were only 9 regular voters (with UB + ividyon jumping in at the very end) with only 4 confirmed Darkening-likers. Had everyone who entered the game played until the end, I don't think Darkening would have made top 3 (in fact it was almost eliminated at the nr 4 spot.

Pity you didn't join (although, not really: Darkening would have suffered ;-) )

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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 12:54

Page 7 of 113
UBerserker wrote:Spectator post here!
TCO and Firestorm are going to be released before this thread ends.

You were wrong. You are always wrong. :P

When I saw the topic, I did the math that it would need 1000 votes to end the elimination. No way this would be ever completed ...

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: ELIMINATION - hurt/heal Unreal & RTNP:UE maps

Post Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 14:34

LMFAOI

Pretty sure if either TCO and Firestorm will be out, we'll be cool for 10 more years, Epic will allow UT to get unofficial patches, EXU2/G59 will be complete, UT4 will be partly done
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