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[usp] 10 reviews added

Legacy news previously posted on UnrealSP.org.
User avatar Lightning Hunter
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012, 11:07

I just noticed this thread, and I have to say that I am quite saddened by it. It is always painful to see forum regulars and/or Unreal legends flaming each other - no matter what the differences in opinion are. I admit that back in the day, I used to take part in quite a few flame wars. I always had to be right, no matter how wrong I knew I was deep down. However, I've found that time is just too precious to waste as we all get older. Why not just enjoy our hobby and agree to disagree? Winning a flame war or being right never once made me feel "good" in the past, so I've learned to try and just drop things - even if I feel the urge to argue. Nobody ever really wins arguments online anyway. I am not directing this at anyone in particular; I just hope that all the people who were involved in this argument can forgive the negative things that were said, and move on.

To the reviewers: Keep those reviews coming! People will always disagree with some aspect of a review, but you have to just keep working on them and improving.

To Kew: Don't be discouraged by reviews or any of the words that have been said here. Keep up your awesome work, and I know we will all enjoy any future releases of yours! I certainly hope you will finish work on those great screenshots posted over in the Illhaven thread. :)
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For the RTNP "Ultimate Edition" HD, click here.

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Kew
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 01 Jul 2012, 16:42

Lightning Hunter, that is a very fair statement. For my part, I accept your sage advice and will follow it in the future.
As I hope is evident, I love creating maps and will avoid getting myself into any further distractions. Yes, time is far too precious.

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012, 23:50

In the meantime I've almost finished Tentacle Hunter's maps and boy was I surprised.

As mentioned in the review, difficulty goes up and down, but one doesn't have top be an überplayer to beat the maps. I have to admit though that the Warlord is a pain due to movement being restricted somewhat (that is, if you want to avoid being incinerated). However, I have a feeling a couple of players (UB for sure) won't like the gameplay all that much. The various weapons are available quite soon but ammo is not plentiful. Those that have the patience and don't mind using up the DP, recharging and reusing the DP, recharging, etc.. will find that the heavier ammo is sufficent for thight situations.

What stunned me the most was the grandiosity of some areas, built in a relatively simple way but the atmosphere just oozes. Make sure you never use up all rifle ammo - it compensates the lack of binoculars. Can't remember the score for Conceptual Grandness but TH did try very hard (and succeeded) to make the player stand still and look around. I also think the mirrored rooms and upside down rooms (above or under water) were well designed - the danger with this kind of setup is that the brain gets too much information which is inconsistent with experience that it becomes a pain to work through. TH balanced this just right.

On the negative side there's the "story" (or lack of or completely incomprehesible) and the occasional altered enemy which, due to the surprise factor) causes a lot of damage (mentioned in the review). But luckily the availability of health should compensate that. Nevertheless, regular saving may not be a bad idea.

TH's maps were completely new to me and didn't dissapoint at all! (See, a score of 37 doesn't mean it's bad :wink: )


BTW. Has anybody else played The Once Great Temple yet? I really want to know whether what I experience on that map is exactly how the map is?, or whether I've got some unknown mutator or something making it much, much too hard for me?

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012, 23:55

I liked TH's mappack unlike Zora's stuff. Played it tons of times in the past.
I made a new review on the other hand, not sure when Sana will post it though.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012, 23:56

UBerserker wrote:I liked TH's mappack unlike Zora's stuff. Played it tons of times in the past.

And no problems with lack of heavy ammo for the stronger enemies?

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 04 Jul 2012, 23:58

No. I spammed DP way more back then and I didn't kill certain useless enemies. Was average difficulty-wise.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 24 Jul 2012, 19:18

salsaSkaarj wrote:BTW. Has anybody else played The Once Great Temple yet? I really want to know whether what I experience on that map is exactly how the map is?, or whether I've got some unknown mutator or something making it much, much too hard for me?


There's been no more feedback on this so I redownloaded The Once Great Temple just to make sure I have the correct version. I have that map now in 4 locations and all of them are and were the same.
I replayed to get my bearings (in God mode) and then opened the map in the editor trying to find a way to inventorise all creatures. I couldn't find any way so I just moved through the map in the editor and wrote down what I saw. About halfway to the Cargo lift I stopped, it's too much of a hassle. But I've got enough info to show that this map is far from a piece of cake. Take into account that there are still a number of enemies between my halt and the cargo lift, that I didn't mention the GasBags (IIRC 3 GiantGasBags which produce offspring), nor anything from the section from the Cargo lift till the end. I dare to say I my list contains probably only half or less of the enemies. Player starts with the DP and picks up an automag with 20 rounds. That's it, extra ammo comes from enemies (which have to be killed) or from inside huts (which contain enemies). And health is hard to find (not even sure if there is any for the picking).

Here are the enemies I noticed (through the editor) with their Health and weapon. Health seems to be increased far beyond the standard level.

3 SkaarjInfantry 600 stinger
SkaarjSniper 600 rifle
2 Pupae 400
2 Slith 210

1st hut SkaarjScout 650

Manta 400

2nd hut SkaarjScout 650

SkaarjGunner 650 Eightball
SkaarjSniper 600 rifle
Manta 400
SkaarjScout 650

3rd hut 2 Krall 650

4th hut SkaarBerserker 850

2 Pupae 400

5th hut Mercenary 800 Tentacle 500

Brute 750

6th Hut Kraal Elite 600 Tentacle 500

Behemoth 1000
Mercenary Elite 750
Titan 6000
3 SkaarjScout 650

7th hut 2 Pupae 400 Tentacle 500

3 Flies 400
SkaarjSniper 600 rifle

8th hut LesserBrute 800

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 19:46

Can anyone else that is in a position to play the level verify this? The buffs Salsa is reporting seem pretty apeshit to me and the review only mentions a few several Skaarj Warrior fights as opposition.

Salsa, you probably already mentioned this but what difficulty are you on? Could be some sinister filtering at work maybe.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 25 Jul 2012, 20:32

Mister_Prophet wrote:...
Salsa, you probably already mentioned this but what difficulty are you on? Could be some sinister filtering at work maybe.

I played on Medium.
I hadn't mentioned it but Delacroix also mentioned the possibility of me having some kind of hidden or forgotten mutator.
To test this I played it on an Unreal Gold installation (227h) and on an Unreal installation (226)(unaltered) : no difference at all.
The health mentioned is taken from the pawn class looking through UED 2.1.

To compare with other maps I have also played Unreal (first 2 maps) in both installations (on Hard) and found it easier than The One Great Temple so both installations seem to be perfectly normal.

There is no mutator or anything installed in my Unreal installations. All other maps react completely normal (Tentacle Hunter's maps are easier for me than TOGT which I still haven't managed to beat).

BTW, thanks Mr. P. for attracting interest onto this matter. I was reluctant to bring this up again before testing thoroughly. I hope a couple of players will try the map. All it takes is 10 minutes of play or less to find out whether those enemies are normal or not.

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012, 11:46

Is it me, or is it general apathy, I don't know but I am seriously dissillusioned by the reponse to my questions raised on 27 June concerning the gamleplay balance in The Once Great Temple. A careful reminder about my question on 4 July had no effect. Then on 24 July I posted a list of enemies which I searched through the editor. Mister_Prophet also understood that what I encounterd isn't consistent with the review so I thought that at least someone would start the map to see what the fuss is all about (8 rifle shots needed to kill a pupae is not what I call no opposition).
Anyway, more than a(nother) week later and apparently nobody has 10 minutes time to download and start the map. *sigh*

Taking a risk here - but - I propose, actually no, suggest that the review is taken down because (concerning gameplay balance) the picture given is false (until now there's been no contradiction).

@Delacroix
Please don't take this personal but you yourself said you would replay this - 10 minutes should suffice.

BTW as mentioned before (I think) if it turns out that I have a different map (impossible but for sake of argument) or that there's something incredibly wrong with my difficulty settings, I'll kneel and apologise to anyone who deems it necessary.


BTW (2nd) I have replayed this and finally found a way to get very near the end (got killed before finishing the map it but anyway) without any cheats. It's not a foolproof way and it's no fun at all plus in the beginning you have to be lucky that you can get a SkaarjSniper to finish off the 2 Slith so that he's weakened and even then it involves DPing (secondary) from out of sight. Don't use the rifle rounds or automag because you'll need those for the gunner in the next section.

User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012, 11:55

Delacroix appears to be generally absent from the site/internet, so I wouldn't interpret this as yourself being ignored.

What do you think about writing your own Second Opinion to the review? When the new site is live the idea of Second Opinions will be done away with and each review will be on equal footing, but until then you could still depict the map in a way you think is right by writing a SO review. :)
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012, 12:17

sana wrote:Delacroix appears to be generally absent from the site/internet, so I wouldn't interpret this as yourself being ignored.

It's not about feeling ignored (which wouldn't bother me anyway). It's not even about being in disagreement with (a part of) the review (I have been in disagreement before but in those cases it was basically about the funfactor which is very subjective). In this case it seems that the reviever didn't play the map or has a different version - that is accepting that I have the correct version, which I have!). I do have a problem with the apparent complete lack of interest in finding out whether blatant criticism of (part of) a review is justified or not. It seems there's more interest nowadays in flamewars and insults and that criticism isn't accepted anymore. I agree that it's summer (holidays) and that nobody is interested in playing everything but 5 weeks is a long time. Seriously it almost takes more time to write a post asking when RD or TCO will be released than to open a map and walk into the first area - it won't take 5 minutes to know whether the map is normal or not.

sana wrote:What do you think about writing your own Second Opinion to the review? When the new site is live the idea of Second Opinions will be done away with and each review will be on equal footing, but until then you could still depict the map in a way you think is right by writing a SO review. :)

The problem with this is that any review of mine would be focused on gameplay balance, funfactor (not included in the review scheme), a bit of conceptual grandness (also highly subjective) and perhaps story. I can't really comment on build, technical execution, texturing, lighting except for obvious flaws due to the fact that it would take me ages to get the necessary background.

User avatar Semfry
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 02 Aug 2012, 12:33

salsaSkaarj wrote:The problem with this is that any review of mine would be focused on gameplay balance, funfactor (not included in the review scheme), a bit of conceptual grandness (also highly subjective) and perhaps story. I can't really comment on build, technical execution, texturing, lighting except for obvious flaws due to the fact that it would take me ages to get the necessary background.


Second opinions don't have to be as general as the main reviews do (which is something I've enjoyed about the few I've done) so that doesn't matter.
Formerly Mman

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 03 Aug 2012, 18:53

I'm still just curious if Salsa's mention of the enemy appearances are what's in the same map as what was reviewed or if he is experiencing a glitch in the matrix. Since I am not in a position to test I thought someone else who has tried the level would have posted by now, but I'm guessing nobody else has played it? If I could play it I would have verified it by now Salsa, swear to god.

On Second Opinion reviews, MMAN is correct about their general approach. They don't have to be made for the mainpage. I'm of the mind that they don't even need ratings. I admit that the ones I've sent tend to get bloated into a general review anyway, which is okay, but typically there is always something that doesn't get mentioned and different players have different experiences. There is transparency in place in the form of second opinion reviews for when the occasion arises that something more needs to be said, like when I felt compelled to make a review for Nali Chronicles when I experienced vastly different gameplay situations than MMAN. Quite honestly, it's like a comment section with punctuation.
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NaPaliShore
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Subject: Re: [usp] 10 reviews added

Post Posted: 04 Aug 2012, 01:35

Mister_Prophet wrote:I'm still just curious if Salsa's mention of the enemy appearances are what's in the same map as what was reviewed or if he is experiencing a glitch in the matrix. Since I am not in a position to test I thought someone else who has tried the level would have posted by now, but I'm guessing nobody else has played it? If I could play it I would have verified it by now Salsa, swear to god.


I think I may have an answer to this conundrum.

At the bottom of the UnrealSP review of Once Great Temple (see http://www.unrealsp.org/community/reviews/oncegreat.html), there is a download link for the map. The URL of that link is http://www.unrealtexture.com/Unreal/Downloads/Maps/COOP/OnceGreatTemple.zip. (Notice the appearance of the word "COOP" in the path of that URL.) The file name of the map file contained in that ZIP archive is OnceGreatTemple.unr.

Now, I had played Once Great Temple some time ago and remembered it being a pretty tame map, combat-wise, for the most part. So I looked around on my hard drive and located my original copy of the map, that I had played. A little research turned up the fact that I had originally downloaded that map from this page: http://www.viceman.us/3dgamersedge/unrealrevs/greattemple.html. And the file name of the map file contained in the ZIP archive from ViceMan's site is Marty.unr.

If you compare the beginnings of both maps, the difference is immediately apparent: in Marty.unr you pick up an automag and there are no roaming monsters between you and the first hut. In OnceGreatTemple.unr, you immediately encounter a couple of Skaarjtroopers (or whatever they are called) armed with stingers, and a slith. So basically I think that's a "Coop" version of the map, with extra opponents added, meant to be played by multiple players in a team. Therefore I would suggest updating the download link at the bottom of the review to point to a "vanilla" version of the map, without those extra added opponents?

Just my $0.02....

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