[ut] Project Xenome un-released

Post **Posted:** 27 Mar 2009, 18:44

What a thrill! The sudden appearance of Jazzyb has brought us the release of Project Xenome, an Unreal Tournament campaign of an epic 40-map magnitude, effectively breaking Operation: Na Pali's map record. After over three years of development on the ONP code base with the inclusion of new textures, sounds and music the pack is now ready for public consumption, and we recommend checking out this unexpected release as soon as possible!
UPDATE (Hellscrag): Due to some issues with brushes borrowed from other map packs without permission, JazzyB has requested that no further downloads of his mod take place until he can sort the issue out. A re-release will follow in due course.

TheIronKnuckle · Post **Posted:** 27 Mar 2009, 23:51

I love it how this project just appears out of nowhere. And it's my birthday on the 30th! Thanks for an awesome present Jazz :shy:

:tup:

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 30 Mar 2009, 04:35

glad to see he is fixing the problems :tup:

unfortunatly for me this isn't going to stop me from playing all the maps. (I will replay them in the next release for comparisons)

Isaac · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 00:47

aww man, i was so looking forward to play Project Xenome

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 01:47

Well.. I think this is a good place to voice my honest opinon about the unfortunate things that lead to links being removed from this site and fileplanet (or wherever)

So far I've beaten little over half of the pack and I can tell that there is alot of effort and trial and error that went into the development of this pack. What Jazz did by use of different sources should be comended by this forum and not neglected. This honestly are the kind of people this community needs more of... conceptual workers. He took what he could find and put it to use the way he saw fit. With that said, I can definitly understand why other developers would be angry having their work taken without proper permissions. Its unethical and is a slap in the face to the others who have created that artwork. So once again.. I stand 50/50 on this issue and I think it something for Jazz and those developers to work out and not this forum in general. Maybe they can hold some private discussion about how to "make the pack work" without having to delete full maps from the pack. I'd hate to get some watered down update in the next release which shortens the lifespan of the pack and makes enviroments looks less appealing (to say the least).

This could include members from Red Nemesis or the Zephon team (because I saw some brushes from that too) helping this guy make some terrain brushes? is it that much to ask really?

I personally would contribute some gameplay fixes (I'm actually considering going behind Zephon teams back and doing that myself to their pack to create an update since they have negelected to do that). Something has to give sometime.. and if someone doesn't step up for packs that lack in certain areas its just going to kill the community more.

Lightning Hunter · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 02:03

jackrabbit wrote:Well.. I think this is a good place to voice my honest opinon about the unfortunate things that lead to links being removed from this site and fileplanet (or wherever)

So far I've beaten little over half of the pack and I can tell that there is alot of effort and trial and error that went into the development of this pack. What Jazz did by use of different sources should be comended by this forum and not neglected. This honestly are the kind of people this community needs more of... conceptual workers. He took what he could find and put it to use the way he saw fit. With that said, I can definitly understand why other developers would be angry having their work taken without proper permissions. Its unethical and is a slap in the face to the others who have created that artwork. So once again.. I stand 50/50 on this issue and I think it something for Jazz and those developers to work out and not this forum in general. Maybe they can hold some private discussion about how to "make the pack work" without having to delete full maps from the pack. I'd hate to get some watered down update in the next release which shortens the lifespan of the pack and makes enviroments looks less appealing (to say the least).

This could include members from Red Nemesis or the Zephon team (because I saw some brushes from that too) helping this guy make some terrain brushes? is it that much to ask really?

I personally would contribute some gameplay fixes (I'm actually considering going behind Zephon teams back and doing that myself to their pack to create an update since they have negelected to do that). Something has to give sometime.. and if someone doesn't step up for packs that lack in certain areas its just going to kill the community more.

I think most of your post is wishful thinking, unfortunately. The reality is, Jazz did take work from other maps without asking, and I think he is taking the right course of action right now. It's better if all the content is original, anyway. Seeing the same caves in multiple map packs can get awfully repetitive. I still think the use of Hourences map in both ONP and Xidia was a mistake until this day, because no matter how good a map is - I don't want to play it over and over again in different packs. The same goes for maps that contain ripped portions of other maps. I also doubt that the busy mappers around here have the time to make new terrain for Jazz, either. I believe Jazz has the talent to make them himself.

Besides all this, have you ever had any of your work taken and used without permission? It really is quite a shock. I found some of my old work used in someone else's Monster Hunt map once. The author had completely ripped out portions of my map and used them without asking. When I stumbled upon it without ever seeing my name mentioned in the credits, it was quite a shocker. I completely understand the feeling of these mappers upon first seeing their work used without ever being informed.

However, all is said and done now - so lets look to the future and not the past. I believe Jazz will make an even better release this time around. If he had the motivation and put forth the effort to make this release, do you really think he will make it pathetic and "watered down" for the next release? I think not. Have a little more faith in his abilities! Saying that his maps will be "watered down" without the work of other mappers is kind of an insult to his abilities in the first place.

Lightning Hunter · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 02:13

jackrabbit wrote:I personally would contribute some gameplay fixes (I'm actually considering going behind Zephon teams back and doing that myself to their pack to create an update since they have negelected to do that). Something has to give sometime.. and if someone doesn't step up for packs that lack in certain areas its just going to kill the community more.

Why don't you just contact Team Zephon yourself and ask them if you can do this? If they are all busy, then I doubt they would have a problem with it. It's REALLY not that hard to send someone a quick PM or e-mail to get permission. I had to get permission from over 30 mappers when I released my UT Classic Packs and the UT Modern Pack! It wasn't as hard as you would think it would be. I would love to see an updated release of Project Zephon, so if you are willing to take the time, just ask them!

Buff Skeleton · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 03:06

Yeah, at least send them an email or PM. If you don't get a response, well, it's probably ok as long as you are really clear about what you did and give proper credit, but yeah. Definitely ask first.

Mister_Prophet · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 03:19

jackrabbit wrote:
What Jazz did by use of different sources should be comended by this forum and not neglected. This honestly are the kind of people this community needs more of... conceptual workers. He took what he could find and put it to use the way he saw fit.

Let's cut the bullshit, shall we? I think in light of everything we're all agreed that the original parts of the pack warrant completion. The right way. And we're behind Jazz as he gives it a second try. And the fact that he his open about what he did and willing to make up for it says a lot about his character. But that doesn't the change the severity of what happened and what it means to take someone else's work. The last thing this community needs is plagiarists. Taking 70% of someone's map, events and all, and porting it into a pack is NOT conceptual level design. It is an insult to pretend that it is. We've all commended him for the work he did himself, and that's what we support.

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 04:14

Mister_Prophet wrote:
jackrabbit wrote:
What Jazz did by use of different sources should be comended by this forum and not neglected. This honestly are the kind of people this community needs more of... conceptual workers. He took what he could find and put it to use the way he saw fit.

Let's cut the bullshit, shall we? I think in light of everything we're all agreed that the original parts of the pack warrant completion. The right way. And we're behind Jazz as he gives it a second try. And the fact that he his open about what he did and willing to make up for it says a lot about his character. But that doesn't the change the severity of what happened and what it means to take someone else's work. The last thing this community needs is plagiarists. Taking 70% of someone's map, events and all, and porting it into a pack is NOT conceptual level design. It is an insult to pretend that it is. We've all commended him for the work he did himself, and that's what we support.

looks like your quoting my first sentence (one side of a view) and neglecting the other. Is it wrong for us to take brushes from the original game? I don't do it.. but I don't think its wrong.. do you? With this "cut the bullshit" deal you posted here I assume thats what you feel. Like I said.. my views are 2 sided here. I don't blame Jazz for what he did, but I don't go waving a red flag around saying "this is all under the Unreal Engine platform so who gives a nickel?" I can't understand how it would make me feel if some "random dude" came on the forums one day and posted his project which includes numerous brushes from my pack. The difference here is that Jazz made the right decision to admit to his faults and start again.

@Lightning Hunter

yeah.. I agree with all of that. Let me just say that the way in general that the forum has handeled this whole situation is very mature and the right thing to do. Now its time to take the next step forward and help that poor guy either learn some new talents or just give him some much needed help. I'd really like to see this pack reach its full potential.

GTD-Carthage · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 05:12

If you think just because it's the same engine so you can edit all the community content you want as you would to Epic's maps, you're dead wrong.

In fact, the copy issues here in USP are small time compared to my experience in the SimCity 4 mod community. People there actually THREATEN legal action just because their mod got published on another site or got rereleased on a torrent. I even remember one of their community admins threatening legal action to a guy who lived in Canada for releasing just a compendium of some stuff over BitTorrent.

But regardless, I do believe that copying content from another map pack means one thing - it's because the map in question was THAT good to leave an impression on the player. It's that strong for someone to have built up another one's world. Being stolen from is both an honor and a problem at the same time.

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 05:20

GTD-Carthage wrote:If you think just because it's the same engine so you can edit all the community content you want as you would to Epic's maps, you're dead wrong.

In fact, the copy issues here in USP are small time compared to my experience in the SimCity 4 mod community. People there actually THREATEN legal action just because their mod got published on another site or got rereleased on a torrent. I even remember one of their community admins threatening legal action to a guy who lived in Canada for releasing just a compendium of some stuff over BitTorrent.

But regardless, I do believe that copying content from another map pack means one thing - it's because the map in question was THAT good to leave an impression on the player. It's that strong for someone to have built up another one's world. Being stolen from is both an honor and a problem at the same time.

Don't get me wrong.. I agree with what you have to say here. I'm just saying... the Unreal Engine is only capable of 'so much' as we already know here. There is a right way and a wrong way to do terrain. Taking Harobed's terrain brush and editing it for your own map is probably the smartest decision if you didn't want to make the brush on your own.

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 05:22

@Carthage
Don't get me wrong.. I agree with what you have to say here. I'm just saying... the Unreal Engine is only capable of 'so much' as we already know. There is a right way and a wrong way to do terrain. Taking Harobed's terrain brush and editing it for your own map is probably the smartest decision if you didn't want to make the brush on your own. Taking a community mappacks brush is questionable... but isn't it in essence the same thing? If that terrain brush done by the community was the right way, its a compliment for others to reuse it for their own intents and purposes. Its also a problem. I understand that.

Mister_Prophet · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 05:47

jackrabbit wrote:
looks like your quoting my first sentence (one side of a view) and neglecting the other. Is it wrong for us to take brushes from the original game? I don't do it.. but I don't think its wrong.. do you? With this "cut the bullshit" deal you posted here I assume thats what you feel. Like I said.. my views are 2 sided here. I don't blame Jazz for what he did, but I don't go waving a red flag around saying "this is all under the Unreal Engine platform so who gives a nickel?" I can't understand how it would make me feel if some "random dude" came on the forums one day and posted his project which includes numerous brushes from my pack. The difference here is that Jazz made the right decision to admit to his faults and start again.

I quoted the part of your 50/50 stance that I disagreed with, since we can all agree on the latter. But on your first opinion...I take strong issues against the mentality that taking from other community authors is "conceptual level design" and something that should be patted on the back, which...and correct me if I'm wrong, you half said you support. There's a gray area with the mapping learning process. We've all looked at other maps when we were starting out to perfect our own art. And more often than not the best inspiration comes from community maps. As a mapper I understand that. But you need to put what happened in this particular instance in context. This was not a private affair. This was a competent level designer who could have studied fellow maps and learned how to do it himself. Although that doesn't say a budding mapper has the right to do the same thing.

As for your question Jackrabbit, Do I think it's wrong to take brushes from the stock levels (i.e., levels we all paid for when we bought the game)? Short answer, no I don't. Although again, this depends strongly on context. There's reduxing a map, as an homage and a return to a location from a mother game in a new storyline...as seen in ONP and 7B. And then there's cases where people take CTF-Face...change some guns...and submit it to a mapping site with the new title CTF-FaceExtremeMountainDewVersion. One is a serious use of paid for material that uses them in a new way and another is hard drive fodder.

jackrabbit wrote:Don't get me wrong.. I agree with what you have to say here. I'm just saying... the Unreal Engine is only capable of 'so much' as we already know. There is a right way and a wrong way to do terrain. Taking Harobed's terrain brush and editing it for your own map is probably the smartest decision if you didn't want to make the brush on your own. Taking a community mappacks brush is questionable... but isn't it in essence the same thing?

No. If I get paid for a map I made and had it put in a game...then I no longer care what happens to it. The credit will always be mine. That's the difference.

Besides the issue of context, which is debatable for using paid for stock maps (ONP and 7B are two examples of packs that do this, but in the context of their storylines and how they are used...it is more of a homage or a narrative based thing than the author doing it because he cannot make the maps on his own)...using community made material on the scale that Xenome did is a bad thing. Because we all know where the maps come from when we buy our mother games. Community maps don't get the same exposure, and inside our little niche there exists a kind of unspoken contract about each others work.

jackrabbit · Post **Posted:** 31 Mar 2009, 06:04

That was a good read.. thanks for the insightful reply :tup:

[ut] Project Xenome un-released

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