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[u1] [ut] FireStorm

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Psychomorph
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014, 15:49

Waiting for the call.
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Doublez-Down
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 22:05

This thing has taken so long it would need to look like UT3 and play like UT1 to live up to the hype for me.
I swear to god this forum isn't going to evaporate into ether within the next hour or so. - Bug Horse

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 22:26

Doublez-Down wrote:This thing has taken so long it would need to look like UT3 and play like UT1 to live up to the hype for me.

Remarks like these may just postpone the release of Firestorm (or other projects) even more. :tdown:
Why can't some people just accept that it's a hobby and not a job and that shit happens now and then. I for one am grateful that at least the developers are trying to recuperate stuff from cancelled projects thus giving us more than we can demand.

Doublez-Down
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2014, 16:33

salsaSkaarj wrote:
Doublez-Down wrote:This thing has taken so long it would need to look like UT3 and play like UT1 to live up to the hype for me.

Remarks like these may just postpone the release of Firestorm (or other projects) even more. :tdown:
Why can't some people just accept that it's a hobby and not a job and that shit happens now and then. I for one am grateful that at least the developers are trying to recuperate stuff from cancelled projects thus giving us more than we can demand.


As someone who has released a decent amount of content over the past few years AND works full time, I think I am certainly in position to say that I realize it's a hobby and not a job. And I also had a project that was meant to take a few months that ended up taking two years. So I can definitely relate to a degree.

My comment wasn't meant as an insult, and of course we are all looking forward to this release. But I do stand by the opinion that if a project takes so many years and is so hyped for so long that it will be difficult to live up to that hype, especially on an aging game engine.

I'm also looking forward to your latest release.
I swear to god this forum isn't going to evaporate into ether within the next hour or so. - Bug Horse

Ryanx69x
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 02:47

You guys still honestly think this is going to be released?

User avatar ebd
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 07:59

Ryanx69x wrote:You guys still honestly think this is going to be released?
Either it will or it won't. The world will go on either way.

If you'd like to do better at delivering a large scale Unreal project and school us all on how it's done, then please do so. Turboman, BUFF SKELETON, Mr. Prophet et al, Raven, Frieza, Z-Enzyme, and everyone else who tried create more content for an ancient game will truly be humbled.

Look, I get it. You (and many others) got emotionally invested in a project for a game you love, and now you (and many others) are worried that project might never be finished. I don't really have anything to offer for this, other than pestering, attacking, or discrediting developers will not achieve the result that are desired.

Ryanx69x
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2014, 21:29

ebd wrote:
Ryanx69x wrote:You guys still honestly think this is going to be released?
Either it will or it won't. The world will go on either way.

If you'd like to do better at delivering a large scale Unreal project and school us all on how it's done, then please do so. Turboman, BUFF SKELETON, Mr. Prophet et al, Raven, Frieza, Z-Enzyme, and everyone else who tried create more content for an ancient game will truly be humbled.

Look, I get it. You (and many others) got emotionally invested in a project for a game you love, and now you (and many others) are worried that project might never be finished. I don't really have anything to offer for this, other than pestering, attacking, or discrediting developers will not achieve the result that are desired.


Sorry, I don't recall saying anything about caring about this project. I stopped caring about it 2 years ago. If it gets released, great, if it doesn't, I couldn't care less. I just find it interesting, and funny that people are still constantly asking for updates on it, when they know they are going to get nothing, and it baffles me how someone can still get excited over a project that's been in the same state for over 5 years.

The only problem I have with the developers of these projects(especially TCO) is that they constantly make bullshit "nearing completion" announcements, then they don't release it and talk about how they just added 40 models and new sounds, even though they just said it was "nearing completion". I have no problem with them taking a long time, that's great. But why not wait till it's actually done, to make an announcement instead of making more bullshit updates? Of course, I can't blame them with all these idiots constantly hounding them for updates on the project, when they get the same answer every time.

User avatar Jblade
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 14:28

While I wouldn't word it the same way, I can share the frustration a bit. I think it's not insulting to say that the Unreal SP scene is very close to flat lining, with a whole bunch of 'super projects' being worked on but precious few actual releases (when was the last big project release? project Xephon? I can't even remember) When the big projects that would inject life back into the scene keep getting pushed back or the devs disappear it's easy to lose hope. Whilst there are other games, I think it's not too unreasonable to understand when you announce a project with a big feature list for a game like Unreal that has nothing like it on the market, that people will get invested into it; I always believe you owe it to them to be honest with the state of the project at the very least. I say this as someone working on his own huge project for another game (nearing the second episode's release) so please don't write this off as somebody else being impatient (and I'm also responsible for a failed project that was my fault for not seeing release, and another project that I could of sat on for another decade but decided it was time to let the bird leave the nest) TCO's team and Turboman are well within their rights to stop working on the projects and lock away the files or chuck them away, but I think if you make a project public and draw in attention it's not unreasonable for nearly a decade later people to start wondering what the deal is.

I think there's two things that could be done; either this topic and other ones for big projects get locked so people stop seeing new posts and get their hopes up just to see another "where is it?" post (and then the topics become unlocked once there's actual news to discuss) or the devs come forward and say "look I'm unable to finish the project anytime soon, if at all." I wouldn't bear any ill will to them and I doubt any rational person would do either.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 22:50

As a project leader who closed all public threads and channels for similar reasons of delays and what not, I've got to stand by the mentality that it is the project leader's responsibility to maintain public discussions and, if need be, close those discussions if they cannot maintain communication or present clear goals. Hobbies are great, but I've learned it's best to keep progress closer to the chest if you aren't even in the vicinity of a release date. Internet entitlement is a plague we have generally been very fortunate not to suffer too much here at USP and people are generally very understanding when you have to say, "sorry guys I'm a bit to overwhelmed atm, gonna put the hiatus sticker on this until I have considerably more pertinent news to report."

On the flipside though, people need to make new stuff for the game and not just kinda stick around to post on forums. I mean, we all have access to the same editor. People like Doublez-Down have a point since they are actually trying to make new things for people to play. Waffnuffly and UB are other good examples, they've been actively testing their own projects through public subsections for years and still add to discussions when they come up. These are the people keeping the gametype alive currently, not placeholder threads for decade old projects that are still in development. I want to see more of this small scale activity and less of...."any news yet?"

It's a dual issue and we are a good enough community to remedy it. And Turboman, if you happen by, update your thread or close it brah ;)
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 22:59

Doublez-Down wrote:...
I'm also looking forward to your latest release.

A bit uncalled for I think, since I made it clear long ago that I'm not a mapper, probably because I don't have the talent but 100% sure because I don't have the determination to carry something like that through to the point that I'ld be satisfied with it (meaning never).

Jblade wrote:...(when was the last big project release? project Xephon? I can't even remember)
.
Actually, after Zephon there have been quite a number of large projects: Xenome, Forgotten, Jrath are the first which come to mind, but there are more). Secondly; large projects by a single mapper are rare, and for community projects the number of available mappers is too small so I'm quite pleased that the active and confirmed mappers are putting their energy and time into completing a project which has been overdue a long time already (fact, not critiscism).

Hmm come to think of it, Waffnuffly (who is currently Buff Skeleton, unless I missed something), realeased EXU (still being expanded though), UBerserker built on that EXU stuff and made G59, Shivaxi (and Bleeder if I'm correct, apologies if I've got it all mixed up) made the UnrealCoop stuff which in my opinion counts as a whole new experience.

So, it's not such an inactive community after all, not even counting Doublez-Down's maps and Zacman (all good stuff BTW) and the new promising mappers (makemeunreal). (again: apologies offered to all those that I neglected to mention here).

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 23:06

Doublez-Down wrote:But I do stand by the opinion that if a project takes so many years and is so hyped for so long that it will be difficult to live up to that hype, especially on an aging game engine.

Point taken but I'ld like to point out that Xenome isn't all that old yet but still delivered something exceptional - meaning that the age of the engine may be a limitation but doesn't imply that whatever is developed with it, is per definition stale. (example, UnrealCoop).

Let's not judge Firestorm before we've played it!.

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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2014, 23:40

Jblade wrote:(when was the last big project release? project Xephon? I can't even remember)


The Fifth Vortex, which wasn't that long ago.

I should note Turboman doesn't seem to be around right now, as I PM'ed him about something regarding Weedrow 2 several days ago (hopefully more on that set soon ;) ) and he hasn't said anything yet.
Formerly Mman

Dr.Cola
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 02:42

I think a problem is that the unreal community isn't alive much at all.
Sure there are older games like Doom but I think it's kept alive more by its ease of access and a lot of mods keep getting made that don't take forever to do.
Of course Firestorm and TCO are both really big mods and not something small, but there is a problem when mod makers try to do something so big that it isn't even Unreal. Remember that you are making a mod for a game and not a fullblown game.
I have followed this since 2007 but I feel like this is in a stuck phase because doing constant bugfixes and adding more features (aren't there enough features?) as well will just keep this mod in a never-ending cycle of new features that makes more bugs to fix and so on.

This post was made like 3-4 hours ago but forgot to post it, just wanted to share my opinion.
I really want this stuff to release since I love unreal and I love mods like ONP, Xidia and a little bit of 7B.

User avatar Jblade
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 17:41

I had forgotten about those releases, thanks for the reminder - but I was talking about the uber-projects that have a ton of maps and possibly new content in them (like 7B, ONP, NC, .etc) Of course we don't live and die off of those but I feel releases like that are still important due to their size and scope.
As a project leader who closed all public threads and channels for similar reasons of delays and what not, I've got to stand by the mentality that it is the project leader's responsibility to maintain public discussions and, if need be, close those discussions if they cannot maintain communication or present clear goals.

I think that's the best view point to take - it was the best idea to remove RD from the spotlight rather than leave up ghost forums and sites. That way it's much easier to subvert hype levels which are much more damaging to mods than games.

Doublez-Down
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Subject: Re: [u1] [ut] FireStorm

Post Posted: 29 Sep 2014, 19:38

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in a couple of earlier posts. For that I apologize (to salsaSkaarj in particular). I got a touch defensive when it was pointed out that my little comment might delay this project or keep it from getting released. As if the developers care what I think (rightfully not).

Hopefully my point was made that I feel releasing quality (albeit not perfect) content at a decent pace is more important than taking years to ensure perfection, particularly on a 15 year old platform. None of us mappers are making new GAME releases where the development team can wait a bit for things to clear out and get a lot better. We are working on an old platform (although yes, there have been some great upgrades to UED) and really don't have the luxury of taking forever to release our work. Otherwise we run the risk of having folks like salsaSkaarj (and other avid game players, vice mappers) go play something else - thereby making our months of work REALLY pointless, since hardly anyone will be around to play it.

It'll be like, "wow look how cool my extra large project is!"....crickets chirping. So that's really what I meant by my initial comment. There's just no way for this project to live up the amount of hype and waiting, especially since there are SO many new games people can play instead that will inevitably be better simply because of newer technology. Of course, if Firestorm or TCO were released any time soon I'd play them, but mainly because I enjoy seeing what others can do with the editor, not because I'm an avid gamer.

I dunno, maybe I went in a circle there, since I'm not sure avid gamers are necessarily the target audience for older technology anyway. Hopefully my point was made either way, and if not, then to all the decent mappers out there - don't take forever to release your content (but of course a happy medium should be met as well, it still has to be "decent content").

I'd like to throw a bone to Teridax here as well, since his name wasn't mentioned with the above mappers. He's a great team member to work with and is making some really nice stuff.

I would also like to see some more releases by more "top tier" mappers like Mr. Prophet and whatever name Waffnuffly is going by these days.
I swear to god this forum isn't going to evaporate into ether within the next hour or so. - Bug Horse

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