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Pupae - AI improvement discussion

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User avatar Sat42
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Subject: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 03 Apr 2016, 16:27

Hello everyone!

So I've been meaning to bring this to the table for a while now.
We have this great source of info:
http://www.unrealsp.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2292

And one thing which strikes me as amazingly dumb is... Pupae intelligence. We've all experienced it in some form:-

If you stand on a slope a bit above some pupae they won't even attack you: once they get to the Lunge preset distance, they freeze on the spot - although Unreal 227 improves this a bit (in general - depends on the slope - they continue to move towards you... very slowly, but they'll eventually get to you).

I know next to nothing about UScript and that is the first problem. Time is the second problem (for anyone) but anyway, this post is meant to (once more?) attract people's attention to this matter and gauge people's interest for a reworked Pupae AI that would solve the aforementioned issue. Lots of mappers would love to see Pupae be able to attack a player even if there's a bit of a slope to climb... I think :) and the lunge is central to this, like maybe it should be determined that if the slope is getting too steep, the pupa will engage without the lunge first, and also, the lunge should be available across a range of heights so that if a player jumps on a table and stays on the edge, the pupa can still make a lunge for the player's throat (or the player's legs at least).

The lunge distance (and height) could also become a variable, so that bigger pupae could be made to lunge themselves further.

A new class of improved Pupae would be more than welcome!

And yes, I'm frustrated I can't map any day I want until I get my gaming PC over to my new place in May!
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 11:17

Yesterday had a talk with Jet about Pupae being able to freely walk on walls but that apparently might need quaternions-based coding which only UArch managed to bring to the table in UE1 throughout EXU2.

EXUPupae is a good start I think.
Image

User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 15:55

Actually this reminds of the amazing Red Nemesis threads we had in the old forums (probably the biggest lost gold), I specifically remember threads regarding what pawns were to be "reworked" like Brutes.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 17:58

The Red Nemesis forums are still there, just hidden.

It's funny because I think most (maybe all) the game's enemies have one major AI fallback, and pupae locking up in certain instances of vertical attack ascent may be one of the more notorious. Their default absence of intelligence is an issue too, if you need to use them in unconventional ways. You can get them to ramp but you jump on a box or a ledge and they are below you they will pretty much stand there and hiss (and if there are a lot of them, maybe try to hop over their brothers). Granted, the hissing itself ought be unsettling.

My issues with pupae stem from having difficulties recreating scenarios that I can do with more conventional pawns, like trying to recreate scripted events similar to headcrab moments from Half-Life.

The spider-bind for wall walking was something I wanted to do years ago for RD, like 2007 maybe. Just had this vision of a player running down a hallway with pupae on the ceiling, walls, and ground, chasing him/her in great numbers.
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User avatar UBerserker
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 18:14

Mister_Prophet wrote:The Red Nemesis forums are still there, just hidden.


Pretty sure it were the old forums' threads unless they were ported over.
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User avatar evilgrins
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 19:33

There's something called a WarriorPupae in the BPak.u which is exceedingly aggressive... and about twice the size of standard, though that's more a ut99 thing.

When that lunges at you, you're dead immediately.

I monkeyed around with a pair of TeamMonster pupae for a map edit I did a stretch back:
Image
Though those are truly disturbed pupae · http://tinyurl.com/zy39nsb

User avatar Sat42
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Subject: Re: Pupae - AI improvement discussion

Post Posted: 05 Apr 2016, 00:33

UBerserker wrote:Yesterday had a talk with Jet about Pupae being able to freely walk on walls but that apparently might need quaternions-based coding which only UArch managed to bring to the table in UE1 throughout EXU2.

EXUPupae is a good start I think.


Indeed, Pupae being able to freely crawl on walls would be wicked, but yeah, that's probably asking for too much :P Aliens versus Predator from around the same era has the Xenomorph with the ability to climb all surfaces and leap incredible distances but well that's another game, and another universe... which still had a significant influence on aspects of Unreal :wink:

What's special with EXUPupae, in terms of AI?

Mister_Prophet wrote:It's funny because I think most (maybe all) the game's enemies have one major AI fallback, and pupae locking up in certain instances of vertical attack ascent may be one of the more notorious. Their default absence of intelligence is an issue too, if you need to use them in unconventional ways. You can get them to ramp but you jump on a box or a ledge and they are below you they will pretty much stand there and hiss (and if there are a lot of them, maybe try to hop over their brothers). Granted, the hissing itself ought be unsettling.

My issues with pupae stem from having difficulties recreating scenarios that I can do with more conventional pawns, like trying to recreate scripted events similar to headcrab moments from Half-Life.


Their default intelligence level can be changed, at least - and I made tests last Christmas and they seemed to do what I wanted them to do - with alarm tags etc.
The thing about having at least one major AI fallback per pawn is true, I guess - the Mercenaries can't really rely on their machine gun spray in Z-Axis fighting for example. And they will have their shield on forever in a damage zone. And mantas, folks!!
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.


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