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UT3 and single player maps & mods

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User avatar Lone Wolf
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Subject: UT3 and single player maps & mods

Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 20:06

Well I have been looking over the videos and screen shots of UT3 and all I can say is it looks fantastic. What do all of you that have the game or demo think how well it will be for making SP maps and mods in the Unreal fashion? I take it that all the models from the 1st Unreal and the add on pack Return to Na Pali will have to be made from scratch.


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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 20:29

Even if there wasn't a problem with the different model / animation format, I think the old models would look incredibly archaic, even with new skins. I think new models would have to be made.

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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 20:35

There would be lots of problems to take care about...

-Scripting a SP gametype.
-New actors are probably needed.
-U1 monsters need to be remodelled and re-skinned.
-And the whole engine is much harder to use... much more than UT2k4.

For SP, I would stick for now with U1/UT in my opinion. And forever.
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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 21:11

yeah UBerserker is correct, there are loads of problems you have to consider when recreating unreal on the new engine, and hellscrag has a point aswell that a direct port feels completely out of place.

even with ut2004 people hit that brick wall, there were lots of Unreal inspired mods planned that were canned, probably most notoriously the LoV project that just didn't seem to take off (despite the team having quite a bit of experience on any fields of the engine).

U1/UT are definately the place to be, both games are still alive aswell and have an established base for Unreal inspired mods
might aswell hint that once 227 is out and skeletal animation is supported, some LoV content might leak to unreal ;)

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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 22:04

besides that... recreating on that engine.. wouldn't it just look totally different?
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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 22:40

Darkon wrote:besides that... recreating on that engine.. wouldn't it just look totally different?


I have forgotten the texture packs as well. It is possible to create the same feel with UE3 (and probably it will be even more stunning), but it's a hard work and not worth the time in my opinion.
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User avatar Darkon
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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 22:42

UBerserker wrote:
Darkon wrote:besides that... recreating on that engine.. wouldn't it just look totally different?


I have forgotten the texture packs as well. It is possible to create the same feel with UE3 (and probably it will be even more stunning), but it's a hard work and not worth the time in my opinion.


Well, DieHard is working on the S3TC textures.. but I dont know if that'll be enough. Besides that, Unreal is cuby compared to UT3.
Never trust a Dutchman in a tulip fight.

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Post Posted: 15 Nov 2007, 23:03

UT3 comes w/ sp. Whether it comes w/ a full blown sp framework has yet to be seen but for the most part I imagine it'll be manageble. Of course new meshes will need to be made, unless you want to capture the 1998 look. UT3 Ed isn't going to be any harder than it was to learn UEd1, 2. Kismet will make it even easier to create scripts you would have had to pester a coder to write for you before.
It's not going to be any more diffucult to make something than before, it just make take longer because of the level of detail you have available.

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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 00:32

Well, at least the Krall are already there. :B

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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 00:45

Even though they look completly differnt then the unreal ones. I don't like them. The new look has nothing to do with the original look.
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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 01:23

I know, it's that bad especially since they look more grumpy and savage than usual. Krall in Unreal1 more poetic, more self-expressive, and have more things to complain about in their journals than the new ones. :D

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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 02:37

Few weeks ago UT3 was 'teh best game EVAR' now everyone is complaining about it...Guess i was El Correcto Mondo
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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 06:09

cronodevir wrote:Few weeks ago UT3 was 'teh best game EVAR' now everyone is complaining about it...Guess i was El Correcto Mondo


I think you'd feel like you were correct whether everyone disagreed with you or not :wink:

-----

On topic, the reason it might seem daunting to make a SP on UT3 is the same reason it was daunting for UT2k4: You'd need to do a LOT of work to do it justice. With UT1, we had practically the same stuff we had before...hell the game even came with all the things used in Unreal to make SP maps, from actors to pawns.

2K4, and UT3...it's not like that. You also have to take into consideration that to do something simple like make a casual DM map for either...expectations from the community were absurdly more demanding. To make maps now meant more than just skill at carving BSP. You had to know how to cultivate your own texture programs, learn outside 3D programs to make your own static meshes, dive deep into more complex editing systems to animate your maps. You were one of three types of mappers; the kind that makes professional looking maps with tons of custom content, the kind that reused stock meshes and epic made effects on your own carved layout...which didn't nearly garner as much praise as the previous kinds of mappers...or the kind that always exists...the lower rung mappers who subtract cubes and put guns in them or simply port already made stock maps with more vehicles. And that was just for MP maps!

It was a stark difference from before, where more people could make quality stuff. Now there was a big distance between the professional maps and the stuff that was forgettable after a quick romp. There are far fewer "legendary" community made maps for 2K4 than ones made for UT1. With 2KX and above, people just expect a lot more than UT1 in terms of build quality. And that goes triple for SP mods. There are some really good ones, but they are rare. It's just not like before where we have tons of SP campaigns. This is precisely why I could never finish a single DM map I started for 2k4. By the time I started collecting some of my custom made content, I just lost interest in the map concept. Too much crap to do and I didn't have the time or patience (and the only gametypes I like mapping for are DM and SP and I mainly played 2k4 for team stuff).

People over at UP put together that oldskool monsta toolz mod, and that's the closest to UT's oldskool like mods there is for 2k4. I haven't tried it yet but I've heard it's awesome. You have to remember that for a lot of 2kX players, SP means something like Monster Hunt or that one gametype that shipped with the game where you fight swarms of U1 enemies. I think MP nature of the post 2K3 community just prefers something they can play online. According to Zynthetic, that's why Killing Floor's later installments were MP orientated.

So if you want to make a SP pack for 2K4 or UT3 the way they were made in the past, you have my full support...but you got a lot of work to do. I don't like to sound like a downer, but the big reason you don't see so many is because it's freakin' hard and for all the time and effort you may not even get even half the satisfactory response from the community as say, one of the simpler...mainstream MP mods. Looking at the technology available, there's EXTREME potential for an outstanding SP game to be made, and that's just on 2K4's engine. It all depends on the mod makers and how far they'd be willing to go.

I say the same thing for UT3. It can easily be a great platform for SP...but somebody has to really do some work and assemble a good team. I also say that SP mods in the style of the classic ones and those still being made for UT1 and Unreal could also happen, but again...someone's gotta lay the foundation. We basically need someone who is like Keanu Reeves and UsAaR33 fused into one supreme mod maker. :o

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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 13:36

Mister_Prophet wrote:
cronodevir wrote:Few weeks ago UT3 was 'teh best game EVAR' now everyone is complaining about it...Guess i was El Correcto Mondo


I think you'd feel like you were correct whether everyone disagreed with you or not :wink:

-----

On topic, the reason it might seem daunting to make a SP on UT3 is the same reason it was daunting for UT2k4: You'd need to do a LOT of work to do it justice. With UT1, we had practically the same stuff we had before...hell the game even came with all the things used in Unreal to make SP maps, from actors to pawns.

2K4, and UT3...it's not like that. You also have to take into consideration that to do something simple like make a casual DM map for either...expectations from the community were absurdly more demanding. To make maps now meant more than just skill at carving BSP. You had to know how to cultivate your own texture programs, learn outside 3D programs to make your own static meshes, dive deep into more complex editing systems to animate your maps. You were one of three types of mappers; the kind that makes professional looking maps with tons of custom content, the kind that reused stock meshes and epic made effects on your own carved layout...which didn't nearly garner as much praise as the previous kinds of mappers...or the kind that always exists...the lower rung mappers who subtract cubes and put guns in them or simply port already made stock maps with more vehicles. And that was just for MP maps!

It was a stark difference from before, where more people could make quality stuff. Now there was a big distance between the professional maps and the stuff that was forgettable after a quick romp. There are far fewer "legendary" community made maps for 2K4 than ones made for UT1. With 2KX and above, people just expect a lot more than UT1 in terms of build quality. And that goes triple for SP mods. There are some really good ones, but they are rare. It's just not like before where we have tons of SP campaigns. This is precisely why I could never finish a single DM map I started for 2k4. By the time I started collecting some of my custom made content, I just lost interest in the map concept. Too much crap to do and I didn't have the time or patience (and the only gametypes I like mapping for are DM and SP and I mainly played 2k4 for team stuff).

People over at UP put together that oldskool monsta toolz mod, and that's the closest to UT's oldskool like mods there is for 2k4. I haven't tried it yet but I've heard it's awesome. You have to remember that for a lot of 2kX players, SP means something like Monster Hunt or that one gametype that shipped with the game where you fight swarms of U1 enemies. I think MP nature of the post 2K3 community just prefers something they can play online. According to Zynthetic, that's why Killing Floor's later installments were MP orientated.

So if you want to make a SP pack for 2K4 or UT3 the way they were made in the past, you have my full support...but you got a lot of work to do. I don't like to sound like a downer, but the big reason you don't see so many is because it's freakin' hard and for all the time and effort you may not even get even half the satisfactory response from the community as say, one of the simpler...mainstream MP mods. Looking at the technology available, there's EXTREME potential for an outstanding SP game to be made, and that's just on 2K4's engine. It all depends on the mod makers and how far they'd be willing to go.

I say the same thing for UT3. It can easily be a great platform for SP...but somebody has to really do some work and assemble a good team. I also say that SP mods in the style of the classic ones and those still being made for UT1 and Unreal could also happen, but again...someone's gotta lay the foundation. We basically need someone who is like Keanu Reeves and UsAaR33 fused into one supreme mod maker. :o




I had a feeling that this was the case. I can under stand the time problem that would be involved to. When I started my SP map pack some time ago I was surprised at the amount of time that it took do map. Now I was a newbe to mapping so I had to learn everything from the beginning. And even with all the content that was available for UT how much time was involved.
To bad Epic could not toss the SP crowd a bone and make up the foundation for a good SP game for UT3 and release it as a add on so the SP players could make up there own maps.

LW
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Post Posted: 16 Nov 2007, 15:30

cronodevir wrote:Few weeks ago UT3 was 'teh best game EVAR' now everyone is complaining about it...Guess i was El Correcto Mondo


And of course you're wrong once again.

Oh, and the new Krall are better than those U1 pushovers, honestly.
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