ividyon will never get this done, will he.

And now for something completely different!

The archive for the 10th Anniversary Speedmapping Contest entries and discussion.

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Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 15:04

FraGnBraG wrote:(not-really-related small rant here) It seems UE1 - well, maybe at the the time of Unreal - was limited in some ways... for example, no ability to have a dynamic or "moving zone", like the old complaint about rising/falling lava or waterzone. Like in that level where you're on the merc/slith ship - the second area is all walkways and pools full of green liquid. you fight your way to a room where you push a button, then it does the "loading" thing and when you leave the room tanks are empty, and you jump down to continue on... So they just did a clever little level switch, rather than figure out how to make a sheet/zone move. oh well.
Of course the original Unreal is limited (cylindric collision hull) because of its age, but it can do all, what ut99 can (editor, drivers and mutators are the exception). Unreal was meant for single player, so it only has the predefined classes needed for the campaign (and the few integrated death matches). The native code is capable to let Terraniux be one level (a Zone, which switches some variables to that of a Waterzone, when triggered). But things like that or the HUB system would have delayed the release.

edit: but let the maps with EndGame gametype be short, because you will lose your inventory again when you save and load in these maps. Perhaps you should immeaditely teleport to the next level, when entered.

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 15:22

227 has dynamic zones. Compatibility demands we can't use it for comp though :(
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FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 18:49

integration wrote:...The native code is capable to let Terraniux be one level (a Zone, which switches some variables to that of a Waterzone, when triggered). But things like that or the HUB system would have delayed the release. ... edit: but let the maps with EndGame gametype be short, because you will lose your inventory again when you save and load in these maps. Perhaps you should immeaditely teleport to the next level, when entered.


... thanks :) that is quite interesting - where do you find such historical information? are you one of the guys who has the engine code?

Anyways, based on testing the basic switching of maps, I came up with this plan regarding level progression:

1. (vrikers) intro-cutscene
2a. (vrikers) spaceship activities/disaster action
2b. (vrikers) disaster cutscene
3a.,3b.,3c. (vrikers) planetside/prisoner activities *** this is now (let's say) 3 smaller vrikers maps
3d. (vrikers) escape setup cutscene
4. (singleplayer) planetside/escape action
5. (endgame) escape/pursuit ending cutscene

Questions:
Okay, do you think this is going to work or fail?

I originally had EndGame type for the little cutscene maps, but since the comp rules mentioned 1 endgame, i figured better just have the one. Tested intro, vrikers, and singleplayer and found intro to have the product branding visible (i could not figure out how to get rid of the epic and GT graphics, so went with vrikers type because you start with no weapon, and when spawning into a new level that does the triggered specialevent IP path you DON'T get that vrikers ceiling first viewpoint. Single player of course has the gun and endgame none.

So with this in mind, what is going to happen to the players inventory/health between #3c (the last battle, so player should several guns, but could also be badly hurt) and #4 where he has to fight his way out...?

I (sort of) assumed the player will keep his guns and health when starting #4, hopefully it will :)

redeye
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 19:04

Hey, I wonder if one can simulate the toss weapon key, but have it toss in the zone you first cross being distructive.
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Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 20:05

I don't think I know more about unreal history than you. I have some basic knowledge in coding and I know the 97 beta, that's all.

In VRikers gametype, you keep your inventory/weapons, but your health will be reset to 12, if you enter with exactly 100 health (also when you save with exactly 100 health and load afterwards).
FraGnBraG wrote:I originally had EndGame type for the little cutscene maps, but since the comp rules mentioned 1 endgame, i figured better just have the one.
Where have you read that? I have only read, that your last map should end with a teleporter, which then connects to the HUB map. Though using VRikers and EndGame gametype could cause Coop problems. (I don't know, how far the contest maps should be Coop compatible)

If you want to test your maps with different gametypes, use the console command
switchcooplevel mapname?game=gametype , e.g.:
switchcooplevel vortex2?game=unrealshare.singleplayer
switchcooplevel nyleve?game=unrealshare.vrikersgame
switchcooplevel nyleve?game=unreali.endgame

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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 20:51

It's the best idea to keep the maps coop-friendly for the sake of replayability and popularity, but it's not a rule. Also integration is right about the end teleporter rule; there should be some sort of teleporter at the end of your entry that can be used to link to a HUB map. There's no mention of the EndGame gametype at all, so feel free to use that for your cutscenes if you so desire... but make up your mind about how much that might impact coop playability (and if you care about it) first.
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FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 22:25

sana wrote: ... "EndGame gametype at all" ...


I guess I assumed "end map/exit" meant an endgame map with and exit teleporter, no probs there.

Never thought about co-op from a design point-of-view, since my story involves one guy. I think it could work in co-op though (I recently completed Unreal and NaPali co-op with tom_cat, and it's basically a matter of one or the other person doing the "single player" triggering)
I think in my case you'd both have to read the specific translator messages, and I think SE-broadcast messages will work for both players simultaneously. Single player Traps might be a problem... The lagging player could be "left outside" so to speak.

So how does the little entrymap room work? (the little prison cell with a mirror wall) During co-op play I appeared in that little room a number of times, I suspect because the other person triggered the map-exit-teleporter first, so the host puts you there for a few seconds while the next map is loading... Is that a part of Unreal, or would we need to make one for our SP?

hmm... maybe time for some SP tutorials :)

FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 22:27

integration wrote:... If you want to test your maps with different gametypes, use the console command
switchcooplevel mapname?game=gametype , e.g.:
switchcooplevel vortex2?game=unrealshare.singleplayer
switchcooplevel nyleve?game=unrealshare.vrikersgame
switchcooplevel nyleve?game=unreali.endgame


great stuff! Thanks for the tips :)

redeye
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 22:33

GOT IT !!!!

All I did was make a zone using a regular cube zone, not like with doorways just a free standing zone,I know you aint supposed to do that, but in any case a small zone, regular zone.

Set the zoneinfo to noinventory, it wont wotk if you pass through the zone, BUT, if you put the player start in that little zone, bingo you start level, and gun dissapears.
Moving ahead, I could grab the flak after it took the stock weapon away, and moving back through the zone, my weapon stayed.

This will probably only work as long as you spawn in the zone, so keep it at a place that won't matter for other things right at the start of maps, lol, wish I did this a long time ago for things.

Using UT and oldschool,why anyone wants Unreal I dunno, but,it should still do the same I presume in Unreal.(any version)

I got to test with a teleporter next, BRB.
Nope, spawned at start of map, ok weapon gone, got flak teleported back inside zone, weapons stayed.
Just ban everyone

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Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 03 May 2011, 23:19

This way you can prevent Singleplayer and CoopGame to start with a DispersionPistol - as it is destroyed shortly after it is spawned. But you cannot take away a weapon, which you already possessed - including the DispersionPistol.

FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 04 May 2011, 02:45

redeye wrote:...I know you aint supposed to do that...


heh :D i do that all the time (directional velocity zones, for example) i don't think the engine cares, tbh.

very cool what you're doing here :) I'm close to showing some screenshots of where my crusty looking space ship is going... so once i get the upper deck BSP finished, a bit of lighting to set the mood and then I'll feel like i'm in the race :twisted:

once i've got the ship going, i'll finalize the all the level entries and test co-op... hopefully i won't have to change my plans too much - i want to see what happens to a cutscene in co-op ... i think the napali end scene (shuttle launch) played on both our computers at the same time, but now i'm not sure ( so i better make sure it works)

Thanks for the help :)

Credits to all, of course

FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 09 May 2011, 16:46

FraGnBraG wrote: ... hopefully i won't have to change my plans too much ...


Bad news for me :( Cutscenes don't work in co-op mode, in fact they don't work in Unreal co-op either... for example, after the queen battle at the end of unreal, one guy goes into the escape pod, the other one just waits in the tunnel hallway, they BOTH end up on the floor of the last map looking up at the escape pod standing in the air at the ceiling of the room. The sceond player seems to knock the first player off the IP. No triggers get fired after that so you have to just quit to get out.

In my cutscene intro, both players go splat after a big long fall :/ re-connecting just deposits a player into the little unreal entry prison room - so cutscene co-op start == fail. Tried a bunch of things and can't fix it, so now I don't care any more. The regular vrikers map when started in co-op does work okay, so skip the intro to play the level. Maps where you have the very end as an interpolated path "cutscene" as explained first, do not work. So my conclusion is cutscenes are used for single player only, without scripting etc.

Things are going a lot slower than I hoped, the most I'll have at the end of the month is a space ship... so the stories as it is will not be told in this contest (gee, didjathink :shake: ) maybe my eyes are bigger than my stomach, lol! Anyhow, now it's changed to ship invasion/escape - a lot simpler to acheive in the time left, also don't have to abandon the work I've done so far -- as for percent complete, I might be 25% as of now, dunno, it feels a bit SystemShock2 meets Doom3 meets Enterprise (TV show) - claustophobic and cramped in spots, but really obvious you are on a spacecraft! There are a couple of large battle areas in the plan, so I think it will feel SP enough, even if not 100% complete. As for the look of the thing, I am reluctant to show too much right now cause everything is WIP - for example, only one simple room is 95% finished (it still needs messaging and sound). The rest all gets built in stages, with detail deco brushing done at the end, after the playspace is completed, lit, and working...

Anyways, sorry for being "chatty", but as of now I'm building one very "un-unreal" looking spacecraft, and I hope it satisfies for now. The SP campaign "story" will still start with this map, but that work will continue during summer (maybe even with a team)...

Cheers

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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 09 May 2011, 16:50

I think dots made a mutator that lets interpolation points work in co-op, so you could always try that after the contest. I can upload it if you want.

FraGnBraG
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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 09 May 2011, 19:53

AlCapowned wrote:I think dots made a mutator that lets interpolation points work in co-op, so you could always try that after the contest. I can upload it if you want.


Great! And many thanks :) could send to fragnbrag@gmail.com (also) if you don't mind :tup:

Okay, here's a few pics:

ISV-Olympia, chugging along in deep space...



This is right near where you start on-board, just a little area - a bit clean looking, actually :)



more to come...

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Subject: Re: And now for something completely different!

Post Posted: 09 May 2011, 20:21

Holy shit. Now THAT is how you use stock textures!
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