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Project Xenome : Interloper

For discussion and promotion of Unreal Engine single-player campaigns, mapping projects and total conversions.

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User avatar [UDHQ]Jackrabbit
Skaarj Warrior Skaarj Warrior
Posts: 88
Joined: 02 Aug 2012, 07:38

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018, 16:17

'Interloper' Unreal Difficulty No Saves : Part 15 - 'Core Issue'

# of resets: About twice as much as 'Dam' roughly
Weapon of choice: Rocket Launcher (all the way). The map is insanely hard without one.
Toughest area: Leading up to the core area (assuming you do not skip the 200 shield).

Fortunately this level has many opportunities to time bio and grenades against warriors either stagnant or chasing you in a straight line. Timing is EVERYTHING on this map in every aspect possible... not excluding how you approach nearly every enemy to how you progress through the map on foot. Without having some concept on how to time your attacks or do perform basic movement timing, this level may be impossible for some players to complete even on Easy difficulty.

Personally, I find the level to be a challenge on Unreal difficulty and running the map while recording video is much harder because of timing. That said, it was perfectly doable with some good strategy and prior knowledge of the level. Core issue is the 'Sunspire' of Xenome and leads the protagonist into the final chapter of Xenome which I eagerly but patiently await.

Ranked Top 6 'Interloper' Skaarj Themed Levels:

6th: Power Play
5th: On Thin Ice
4th: Critical Transfer
3rd: Core Issue
2nd: Nested Interests
1st: Interloper

Video Spoiler:
https://vimeo.com/250455736 (sorry no audio... I blame windows security update)

User avatar salsaSkaarj
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 10 Jan 2018, 22:37

[UDHQ]Jackrabbit wrote:Timing is EVERYTHING on this map in every aspect possible... not excluding how you approach nearly every enemy to how you progress through the map on foot. Without having some concept on how to time your attacks or do perform basic movement timing, this level may be impossible for some players to complete even on Easy difficulty.

Well, there's no doubt that foreknowledge is a GREAT help, and knowing how to move, knowing the strong points of a weapon and also what not to do wil increase the chances of surviving hundredfold.
But in the Warlord fight you sinned multiple times; NO saves , at the end of a very difficult map and you fight the Warlord with 17 (or 27) health as if it's a stroll in the park.
I swear to god I am not going to watch your videos anymore - they make me feel incompetent :wink:

Seriously, congrats on beating X part 2 without saves.
My challenge for you now is to Beat it with no saves in 1 sitting :P

BTW 1 thing I learned from your videos is that even the pulsegun can be effective against the big green eyed Skaarj.

User avatar Psychomorph
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 143
Joined: 17 Jul 2008, 16:46

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 14 Jan 2018, 00:28

Great mappack! I try to play this in Infiltration 2.9 co-op and there are huge issues. Two can't spawn at the same place and you tend to spawn at all the random location in the map. In 18FriendX the door the nali opened in a cave got blocked (I accidentally shot it) and we managed to spawn the next spawn after that area (because admin ghosted there to unlock the spawn), then I died and tried probably 40 times to spawn there without luck.

We spent hours in total battling these issues, because otherwise it's a great mappack and worth playing. We also had FPS issues with the white waterfall fog (unplayable unless you look away).

If there was the possibility to spawn in one spot for all players and maybe choose the spawn location somehow, would make it playable.
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User avatar Psychomorph
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 143
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 22 Jan 2018, 18:30

Any chance for the issues I mentioned to be looked in?
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User avatar jazz
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 125
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Location: third rock from the sun

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 19:19

Thx Jackrabbit for the videos. There were some great exploits in your strategy but you do realise I may have to ‘fill those gaps’ at a later date to make it more interesting, :twisted: heh.

At one point I thought – this is it, he’s wasted! Only to realise a second later, the point of your play through was no deaths! Seriously though, how the hell!!!!! :shock:

I tried a few times on unreal to follow your lead on ‘Core Issue’ for example but I get slammed down for my efforts every time. I keep forgetting the surprise attacks from behind.
Did you do any vids for the early levels? It would’ve been nice to of seen them.
All in all I thoroughly enjoyed seeing each one time and again, cheers man. :tup:

Psychomorph wrote:Any chance for the issues I mentioned to be looked in?


Not sure on this one bud. I'm no expert on co-op but It could be that it's not set up correctly or maybe the Game types are not compatible. I've not played the 'Infiltration' mod before. Maybe UB can help on this?
“I’m Princess Leia, y’all!”

UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7808
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 19:48

Psychomorph wrote:Any chance for the issues I mentioned to be looked in?

jazz wrote:Not sure on this one bud. I'm no expert on co-op but It could be that it's not set up correctly or maybe the Game types are not compatible. I've not played the 'Infiltration' mod before. Maybe UB can help on this?


No idea about Infiltration but I'm dead sure they shouldn't change anything related to placed PlayerStarts. I checked the map in question (18FriendX but this could be true for other levels) and something is indeed a bit off.

While when you open a map the game thanksfully will always choose the first PlayerStart with bSinglePlayerStart=True, it's a good idea having ONLY the starting point PlayerStart with bSinglePlayerStart=True (the PlayerStart that you want a player in SinglePlayer to spawn in the map); the rest of PlayerStarts that are used as Coop checkpoints should better have that property set to false.

Also some PlayerStarts in the level (the ones tagged player7 and player8) appear to be already enabled (bEnable property), which means that in Coop it's possible that players would start the level and someone will spawn waaaaay far into it. And since they're enabled, this means that upon triggering they'll be disabled, completely breaking the checkpoint system. If there's nowhere to spawn in Coop (e.g. when all the PlayerStarts are disabled), I believe the game crashes.

Lastly, for every checkpoint area, put more than one PlayerStart; four PlayerStarts per checkpoint is a good number (if you duplicate the PlayerStarts, remember that you have to reapply the correct Tags to the duplicated actors as they'll lose the original Tag). This is to avoid spawning in a single spot, therefore avoiding telefragging when two players almost spawn at the same time.
ImageImage

User avatar jazz
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 125
Joined: 07 Mar 2009, 00:21
Location: third rock from the sun

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 20:02

Thx UB.
That's something I've obviously missed. It's a good idea not to play co-op until those things are corrected.
My little book of mistakes is getting more and more worn. :shy:

UBerserker wrote: it's a good idea having ONLY the starting point PlayerStart with bSinglePlayerStart=True (the PlayerStart that you want a player in SinglePlayer to spawn in the map)


Does this apply to all the player starts at the beginning of the map for co-op or should it be just one?
“I’m Princess Leia, y’all!”

UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7808
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 20:06

jazz wrote:
UBerserker wrote: it's a good idea having ONLY the starting point PlayerStart with bSinglePlayerStart=True (the PlayerStart that you want a player in SinglePlayer to spawn in the map)


Does this apply to all the player starts at the beginning of the map for co-op or should it be just one?


Either way it's fine but even better if it's just that one PlayerStart that you want the player (in Single Player environment) to spawn with.
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User avatar jazz
Skaarj Assassin Skaarj Assassin
Posts: 125
Joined: 07 Mar 2009, 00:21
Location: third rock from the sun

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 20:17

Thx bud, much appreciated!
“I’m Princess Leia, y’all!”

User avatar salsaSkaarj
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
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Location: on the prowl

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Jan 2018, 23:13

jazz wrote:Thx Jackrabbit for the videos. There were some great exploits in your strategy but you do realise I may have to ‘fill those gaps’ at a later date to make it more interesting, :twisted: heh.

OMG noooo ?!?.
That settles it: No more mentioning of exploits which could be blocked in future updates :D

I'm joking of course but still, how do you define an exploit?
Strictly speaking the AI cannot improvise and if the player finds a way to avoid certain death, congrats to the player. Unless it's an error which crept into the implementation of the design, I'ld say leave it as it is.
Take Signs and Portents, on Unreal difficulty I tried to go out into the open but couldn't handle the heat so I made use of the inside mountain area which also has its risks (spashdamage from rockets, Flak and blades) but isn't an exploit. The greatest exploit of all is using knowledge from previous playthroughs (e.g. knowing where the armour and health powerups are and not taking them before you know for sure that the point of no return hasn't been passed (after which those powerups cannot be reached anymore).

I'm probably the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome, and that's because I don't have the reflexes JackRabbit has, nor the automatisms to change weapons that fast (and getting the correct weapon immediately is a problem for me). But I guarantee that my playing pleasure lasted longer :wink: and if I hadn't found some of my "exploits" I might have given up (including some foreknowledge without which some fights are almost impossible except for the UB's and JackRabbits).

I'll never complain that an obvious exploit which is so easy to see should be fixed but I didn't encounter any of those (perhaps the trigger exploit in Cobalt with the Spider sisters but even if that is fixed, a rocket or shock jump (thanks UB for teaching me that) can make that part a stroll instead of a fight). I'ld say: leave that for the player to find if the spider fight is too hard at first.

I can only speak for myself but the avoidance actions I undertook, although they could be considered exploits, were the result of actively searching for options and trying various strategies (since my head on strategy didn't work) and are an integral part of the funfactor.

The videos by JackRabbit, and my posts about Xenome (and UB's) may have given the impression that it's an easy pack. It is not an easy pack at all, perhaps not as difficult as Xidia (which is really at the limit on Unreal) or Zephon (first release) which was unfair, and certainly not ... forgot the name, a large pack with crabs and bots, absolutely unplayable even on Easy). Don't make it so that only the special forces can beat the map, some of those special forces had to learn in dangerous situations and actually learned to look for and use exploits.

User avatar Sat42
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 25 Jan 2018, 13:54

salsaSkaarj wrote:I'm probably the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome


Bullshit: believe me, by the time I get round to this, I will probably be the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome :wink: (something to do with savouring the games I really enjoy!)
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

User avatar salsaSkaarj
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 28 Jan 2018, 21:24

Sat42 wrote:
salsaSkaarj wrote:I'm probably the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome


Bullshit: believe me, by the time I get round to this, I will probably be the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome :wink: (something to do with savouring the games I really enjoy!)

Hahaha, nice. Still, you'ld be surprised at how much time I spend in looking for alternative paths and ways, exploring every corner I can think of, trying to get to places seemingly unreachable without getting stuck.

Maybe we can have a competition to find out who can make a video with the longest playthrough and let the community judge. Although, I guess nobody is going to have the patience to sit through and watch our sessions (except us) :wink:

User avatar Sat42
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018, 14:13

salsaSkaarj wrote:
Sat42 wrote:
salsaSkaarj wrote:I'm probably the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome


Bullshit: believe me, by the time I get round to this, I will probably be the player who takes the most time to beat Xenome :wink: (something to do with savouring the games I really enjoy!)

Hahaha, nice. Still, you'ld be surprised at how much time I spend in looking for alternative paths and ways, exploring every corner I can think of, trying to get to places seemingly unreachable without getting stuck.

Maybe we can have a competition to find out who can make a video with the longest playthrough and let the community judge. Although, I guess nobody is going to have the patience to sit through and watch our sessions (except us) :wink:


LOL, yeah, maybe I will make playthrough videos at some point! :P Expect me to "role play" the character, no speedrun for sure ;)
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018, 00:07

lol I knew at least something had to have released in the past 2 years. I don't know if I'll ever actually get around to playing this but great that there's something new out there :tup:
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And only idiots know everything

UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7808
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: Project Xenome : Interloper

Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018, 16:24

TheIronKnuckle wrote:lol I knew at least something had to have released in the past 2 years. I don't know if I'll ever actually get around to playing this but great that there's something new out there :tup:


G59, BI v7, Hard Crash, Unreal: Resurgence and a bunch of small levels are something too!
EDIT: And Xeops too now lool
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