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Seven bullets -> 227 platform conversion

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User avatar jackrabbit
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Subject: Seven bullets -> 227 platform conversion

Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 01:27

Okay! Time for my second conversion attempt (first being Deja Vu -> unreal which is still unfinished at Waffnuffly's map lol)

basically....

Progress:
Last Updated 01/02/10
Map Geometry/Lighting Conversion: 100%
Scripts and Resources: 100%
Testing and Approval/Addition Bugfixes: 0%
--------------------------------
Total: 66%

READY FOR TESTING PHASE

GUIDELINES

1.Mr Prophet and company will playtest Seven Bullets map by map on 227 to make sure everything is perfect. (Hellscrag did a great job on this with my deja vu conversion)

2. Oldskool dependencies will become completely void in the 227 version only using the original Unreal classes themselves as superclasses.

3. New .unr files will need to be made because of olweapon/oldskool dependencies created in the .t3d files (I will have to export the map and reimport without them and add a 227 extension to the filename) Example: Jones-01-Deployment-227 * <-something like this

4. a new SevenB.u file will have to be created to work with 227's botpack (there is no way around this).

5. Whatever other guidelines Red Nemesis would like me to follow...

If anyone is interested on helping me on this project, please reply here or PM me with more details on how you want to help. I currently do have some help from some of the top 227 patch leaders who have already given me great tips to help speed this conversion exponentially.
Last edited by jackrabbit on 02 Jan 2010, 08:01, edited 18 times in total.

User avatar Jet v4.3.5
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 01:33

I can't get the Unreal version of Botpack.u to work in my Unreal, but apparently it only runs with 227g, if that's what you're using.

As for the weapons and Scarred One, I've converted the SO and the modified shock rifle, flechette cannon, and the pulse rifle. Right now it works for Dot's weapon pack but I can easily convert it for the 227 Botpack if I can get it to work in the first place.

AS for the conversion itself, I think Red Nemesis was going to make 227 versions of both Xidia Gold and Seven Bullets included with 227 RD, but in light of the fact that RD is most likely not going to be finished soon, this could act as a placeholder like Dead Cell.
Last edited by Jet v4.3.5 on 25 Dec 2009, 01:39, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 01:38

jetv435 wrote:I can't get the Unreal version of Botpack.u to work in my Unreal, but apparently it only runs with 227g, if that's what you're using.

As for the weapons and Scarred One, I've converted the SO and the modified shock rifle, flechette cannon, and the pulse rifle. Right now it works for Dot's weapon pack but I can easily convert it for the 227 Botpack if I can get it to work in the first place.


You should PM someone at oldunreal (casey, dots, Smirf) for the latest test release of 227.

I don't think any seperate packages for the SB weapons and Scarred one will be needed (its all included in SevenB.u if correct.. and i've already successfully compiled that package without any oldskool dependencies).

User avatar []KAOS[]Casey
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 01:40

It will only work on a 227g test release atm

Just a foreword though about 227gs new package loader.

It checks the GUID of files, instead of just the filename, and will search cache for an appropriate match. If none is found, it will download the copy off the server you are trying to connect to.

This basically eliminates version mismatch errors unless the package is currently loaded into memory.

ie: You have a custom player class loaded into your player setup menu through a .int file, and you attempt to connect to a server with a different version, it will still give version mismatches.

With the new loader you can have a million different versions of packages in your cache, and a different unloaded version as a local non cache copy.

tl;dr even though we can't rename SevenB.u it won't be an issue.

User avatar Jet v4.3.5
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 01:40

The Scarred One is saved in the MyLevel package for each map, so it's not in its own .u file.

And Casey, could you PM me the 227g? I'd love to get a look at it and the Botpack conversion.
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User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 02:00

Just a side note to 227 fans (I feel that this is a good place to post this)....

At this point in time, it is indeed looking like every single UT pack (including Zephon, ONP, Xidia, ect.) has the potential to be converted to the 227 version on Unreal in the future. Seven Bullets was chosen by me because I feel it represents the best UT SP material to be produced for that engine. This is the only reason I chose it... so I encourage anyone else to do the same for other packs if they feel the need to do so (and have proper permissions).
I just ask one thing in the process of doing so:

DO NOT CONVERT OLDSKOOL

if you are unsure how to remove oldskool dependencies from the .u files and .unr files, then just STOP and ask for help. Having oldskool in unreal would be pointless and would make 0% sense for Unreal 1.

User avatar []KAOS[]Casey
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 04:32

jetv435 wrote:The Scarred One is saved in the MyLevel package for each map, so it's not in its own .u file.

And Casey, could you PM me the 227g? I'd love to get a look at it and the Botpack conversion.


You'll have to ask smirf for the 227g deal. Just PM him on oldunreal.

The "hard" work of the conversion was mostly removing anything related to the LocalMessage class, and missing functions such as PlayOwnedSound, converting weapons to be server side again, and redefining some functions that conflict with UT's engine.u

User avatar zYnthetic
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 06:04

I may sound a little assholish as this seems to be a very touchy subject (lots of "enthusiasm"), but for the effort required there is too few benefit for parties responsible. 7B or RedNem would not receive the attention it deserves for the work put into it.
From the developer perspective there is little to no advantage as a move such as this adds nothing to the value of the product. No new content or features could be added as these are things that we would insist on being privy to and responsible for but have absolutely no time for such a thing. We're also looking at gaining less than 1% new players. It's not that I think 227 is under populated, it's just that 7B is a big deal in unreal sp and anyone that has been into it for the past 5 years has already played it.
The only "entity" that would benefit from this is the actual 227 build as it's simply an act of adding another title to the platform's library. It would be a good thing for 227 and that's about it. If we had the time to spare it would just be a drain on those resources but since we don't, the effect is neutral. The consensus is likely to be "go for it" but we can't divert any resources away from current projects, and I think it's perfectly understandable why.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 07:05

I would have appreciated a Private Message instead of a public thread, but no matter. The reason I haven't really discussed handling conversions of Xidia and 7B for 227 is...well there are two reasons;

1. We released these years ago, and unlike recent stuff like Dead Cell and RD which will get 227 treatment, it seemed rather pointless to me to consider porting the old campaigns when we've already gone on record with plans to "redux" them post RD release using our current tech. But as pointed out the wait for this would be a while. I do think Zyn has a point about the port possibly being too much work for its worth...I mean, I think the only people that might benefit from this are those two types of folks that either never had UT to run either pack...or those that were too stubborn to try. Either way, there can't be too many out there...and in the case of these two packs in particular the UT content might be a turn off at the starting gate anyway. I know quite a lot of people that consider themselves Unreal purists that have tried UT simply to play the exclusive campaigns available, so I'm personally not so convinced the turn out for downloads will be high (a dozen people? two dozen at most). But I suppose there's no harm in offering the option, as long as you are okay with putting work into something like this.

2. To be frank, I just can't afford the time to handle these ports atm given everything else on my plate. So if you're taking this on you have to understand that beyond testing and approving the final product, I can't really invest myself in this too much. I must be clear on this. I will test and make sure what goes out the door is exactly what I released those years ago, but I simply cannot be bothered to do much else. I do not have the time.

So here's what I have to say about it, Jackrabbit and Company;

I don't mind someone else giving it a shot, although quality control is kind of important to me. We would obviously have to approve of testing before I'd be totally comfortable with whatever is done to the ports to be transferred over. Also, obviously I would want the games to be released identical to how they were played on UT (in terms of game content, gameplay, inventory, ect.) or there would simply be no point. Removal of oldskool is a given. But the games need to be ported, flaws and all. This means that if a UT gun was used, I want it to remain used because it was put there for a reason. I don't really care about the particulars of how you guys do this, and obviously I'll know if the translation is fine or not come testing.

The only issue I can think of about this is...well, really the fact that I mentioned earlier. We are going to eventually redo the earlier Jones stories from the ground up anyway. I don't see an issue with these being ported in the meantime, as long as you guys understand that I really can't afford to do much aside from testing the final product and approving it for release. So yeah, you have permission. Just keep me in the loop.

My email is [email protected]

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Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 15:50

Good luck.
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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Subject: Re: Seven bullets -> 227 platform conversion

Post Posted: 25 Dec 2009, 20:39

jackrabbit wrote:3. New .unr files will need to be made because of olweapon/oldskool dependencies created in the .t3d files (I will have to export the map and reimport without them and add a 227 extension to the filename) Example: Jones-01-Deployment-227 * <-something like this

I'm curious about the technical details of this. How come you can't open the .t3d files in a text editor and do a find/replace to remove all the dependencies? Is there something really rooted in them that causes a find/replace alone to not work? I've had to do similar conversions before and never had problems with find/replace. If you can post an excerpt from a .t3d file and show us what's causing problems, we might be able to help speed up the map conversion process.

There's no doubt that the .u file conversions are the most labor-intensive task, though. There's pretty much nothing you can do to make it easier.


I do also have to echo zyn's and proph's sentiments, though. It seems like a ton of effort for very little gain. I also suggest making it very clear that your converted map packs are completely unofficial and, more importantly, unsupported (unless the authors are explicitly willing to support them). Sticking -227 onto a map is a good idea. You might even consider putting it on the front (227-Jones-01-Deployment) so that all your 227 maps show up in the same place when browsing by name.

If any new players come across the 227 version first somehow (unlikely but possible) and run into problems, they're probably going to ask the original authors what's up. This puts more of a load on the original authors to support a platform that they might not have any familiarity with, similar or not. I don't think this will be an issue in reality due to the nature of the converted maps and the small number of players who will take advantage of them, and it's clear you are making sure the converted maps are absolutely identical to the originals, but the possibility for platform-based problems is, nevertheless, still there, and you should take care to address it preemptively. The idea is to prevent headache for the players AND the original authors.

Good luck on the overall project, though. I honestly don't see the point of it, but I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with giving players a choice if they really want to have an alternative platform (as long as the original authors are OK with it and the projects are identical, of course, as you're ensuring).

User avatar jackrabbit
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Subject: Re: Seven bullets -> 227 platform conversion

Post Posted: 26 Dec 2009, 00:53

Waffnuffly wrote:
jackrabbit wrote:3. New .unr files will need to be made because of olweapon/oldskool dependencies created in the .t3d files (I will have to export the map and reimport without them and add a 227 extension to the filename) Example: Jones-01-Deployment-227 * <-something like this

I'm curious about the technical details of this. How come you can't open the .t3d files in a text editor and do a find/replace to remove all the dependencies? Is there something really rooted in them that causes a find/replace alone to not work? I've had to do similar conversions before and never had problems with find/replace. If you can post an excerpt from a .t3d file and show us what's causing problems, we might be able to help speed up the map conversion process.

There's no doubt that the .u file conversions are the most labor-intensive task, though. There's pretty much nothing you can do to make it easier.





Oh I think I wasn't clear in my methods....instead of reimporting the .t3d file and rebuilding, I will only export and view the oldskool classes in the .t3d file. When I get the names of those values, I will use that find feature you mentioned in the editor to find the class and replace it within the map so I don't have to rebuild. So yeah.... at all costs I will try not to rebuild the maps.

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Post Posted: 26 Dec 2009, 06:29

It's not an editor feature (at least not standard in UED2) but you can do it just as easily with Notepad++ or Metapad or any text editor. Just open the .t3d file using one of those, find out what class(es) you need to replace, and do a find/replace for all instances of the class(es). Their locations in the map, custom default properties, etc. will all be preserved assuming the new classes in the new .u file you're switching to have all the same variables as their originals (as they should). This is the quickest way to do it, especially if your new .u file has all the same class names in it.

For instance:

You have olweapon.oldpistol and olweapon.olflakcannon etc. You open the .t3d file, do a find/replace for "olweapon." to "227Botpack." or something, turning your classes into 227Botpack.oldpistol and 227botpack.olflakcannon etc. It will keep all the changed classes' settings intact so long as you copied all the variables when you brought them over to 227Botpack.u. Once you reimport the .t3d file, if everything is as it should be, you're set. Rebuild and save.

[Edit] Just noticed you're not trying to rebuild. I think if you select all lights and all brushes before exporting the map, you will only have actors to deal with and thus will be able to make the reimportation process smoother. It's better than going through each map and finding every single Oldskool class by hand and then making sure you group them for .t3d export. May as well just do it in one fell swoop, sans brushes and lights, and then when you are ready to reimport, open the map, select all brushes and lights, invert selection, delete all actors, and then import all your edited actors. You'll still need to rebuild probably lighting and definitely paths (some InventorySpots and shit will carry over) but otherwise you'll have all the original BSP errors and stuff intact.

User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 26 Dec 2009, 06:42

Waffnuffly wrote:It's not an editor feature (at least not standard in UED2) but you can do it just as easily with Notepad++ or Metapad or any text editor. Just open the .t3d file using one of those, find out what class(es) you need to replace, and do a find/replace for all instances of the class(es). Their locations in the map, custom default properties, etc. will all be preserved assuming the new classes in the new .u file you're switching to have all the same variables as their originals (as they should). This is the quickest way to do it, especially if your new .u file has all the same class names in it.

For instance:

You have olweapon.oldpistol and olweapon.olflakcannon etc. You open the .t3d file, do a find/replace for "olweapon." to "227Botpack." or something, turning your classes into 227Botpack.oldpistol and 227botpack.olflakcannon etc. It will keep all the changed classes' settings intact so long as you copied all the variables when you brought them over to 227Botpack.u. Once you reimport the .t3d file, if everything is as it should be, you're set. Rebuild and save.

[Edit] Just noticed you're not trying to rebuild. I think if you select all lights and all brushes before exporting the map, you will only have actors to deal with and thus will be able to make the reimportation process smoother. It's better than going through each map and finding every single Oldskool class by hand and then making sure you group them for .t3d export. May as well just do it in one fell swoop, sans brushes and lights, and then when you are ready to reimport, open the map, select all brushes and lights, invert selection, delete all actors, and then import all your edited actors. You'll still need to rebuild probably lighting and definitely paths (some InventorySpots and shit will carry over) but otherwise you'll have all the original BSP errors and stuff intact.


Actually, the amount of oldskool dependencies created within 7Bullets maps seems to be very minimal (I've already removed them from 2 of the maps without rebuilding), so I think I can just manually re-add the 227 versions of the classes within the editor itself. I'll give an update if something goes wrong with this process, but atm it looks like the best way to keep the maps perfectly 1-to-1

the biggest challenge with this process is obviously re-adding stuff like pawns and weapons back into the map and having them look and act exactly like the original objects. But still, that process really isn't so bad (and it beats having to rebuild the maps by a longshot).

@ addressing the value of this project :

I feel that this project is more an investment in what I think 227 will become in the future (the ultimate Unreal SP/COOP gaming platform). I invest my time in the hopes that 227 becomes the universal platform in the future for online/offline unreal SP activities.

I am a server host, and I realize the value of being able to run this pack (and other UT map packs) online in a server. It adds much content for the online community and boasts variety for players online. Believe me, if I didn't want to see that happen in the future I would have never bothered with this (or any other conversion projects). The efforts on this forum should look pretty meaningless to the members on this forum, but someday I believe some random group will appreciate the efforts put forth.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Post Posted: 27 Dec 2009, 01:25

I must strongly advise against attempting any level rebuilds. That's a can of worms you simply don't want to pry open.

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