Birds fly. Sun shines. And brother? Brutes shoot people.

[UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

For discussion and promotion of Unreal Engine single-player campaigns, mapping projects and total conversions.

Moderators: Semfry, ividyon

User avatar TheInvalid
Skaarj Scout Skaarj Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Dec 2011, 21:20
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Subject: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 29 Jun 2014, 23:54

Hi there everybody, sorry for just kind of ducking in and out in this place over the last few years. I've been lurking in the meantime, watching projects come together, but a full-time job and various pressing real-life commitments have kept me from participating nearly as much as I would have liked.

To cut to the chase, I have a bit of downtime on my hands, and have started tackling a project I've been meaning to start for a little while now, namely, cleaning up Operation Na Pali and bringing it much closer to Unreal's 'fluff'. The main goals of the project are:

  • A complete rewrite of the in-game text, cleaning up grammatical errors and changing tone where necessary.
  • Renaming of characters where necessary (i.e. the 'comedy' Mercenary and Nali names).
  • Removal of as much of the in-game dialogue/monologues as possible.
  • Removal of all unnecessary cutscenes, including the introduction and as many of the interstitials as possible without breaking the game.

As an example of what I have been doing, here's a translator message, quoted verbatim (from NP15Chico):
Personal Notes , Lieutenant Krawanuk'h, 3rd Infantery Unit of the Dark Orb: I' m starting to be pissed off by those Skaarjs... they think they can give us any orders they want and they consider us as if we were their slaves...When I was at the Bluff Monastery at least we had fun with prisoners but since the war with Mercs has begun, good times are over...

And how it will appear after:
Personal Notes, Lieutenant Krawanuk'h, 3rd Infantry Unit of the Dark Orb:
The Skaarj commanders here are really testing the patience of my men and I. They treat us as if we were common Nali slaves! When we were stationed at Bluff Monastery at least we had fun with the prisoners, but since the mercenary attacks have become more frequent we were moved to this derelict old temple, where my men are at constant risk from magma and falling masonry. I can only hope Commander Saa'Kitrha falls victim to a tragic 'accident'...


Any thoughts? Would this sort of thing make ONP bearable to play? What else would you like to see? I have some other ideas that are a bit more ambitious than a straight rewrite of the text, but my level of technical expertise is not that great. Let me know what you think!
"Logic can convince but only emotion can motivate."

User avatar AlCapowned
Skaarj Elder Skaarj Elder
Posts: 1175
Joined: 19 Dec 2009, 22:25

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 00:00

I think it's a great idea! As much as I've gotten used to ONP's voice acting and messages over the years, seeing serious messages would be very welcome. Would this be a mutator, or would this involve replacing the original maps?

User avatar TheInvalid
Skaarj Scout Skaarj Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Dec 2011, 21:20
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 00:04

AlCapowned wrote:Would this be a mutator, or would this involve replacing the original maps?

Currently, it's just going to be a wholesale replacement of the original maps. I'm aware it's a pretty inefficient way of doing things, but writing everything as a mutator is way beyond my level of competence with the Unreal engine. That said, if it was doable, then I would be more than happy to provide rewritten text to whoever could script such a thing!
"Logic can convince but only emotion can motivate."

User avatar Sat42
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 865
Joined: 14 Jul 2013, 16:42
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 12:31

Hi TheInvalid,

Just thought I'd drop by to voice my opinion as you seem interested in some feedback on your idea :)
To be honest with you, I'll probably sound critical of this project but take no offense, it's only an opinion and besides, the fact that you want to contribute some new stuff is great in itself and I sure as hell don't want to discourage that!

The thing is, in my view, Operation Na Pali is absolutely fantastic overall and among the best custom works for Unreal/UT99 I've ever played. It isn't perfect, but that was expected. Yes, the voice acting can be annoying and out of place, and yes, sometimes it's more of a sightseeing tour. There are wannabe leet jokes that pop-up at the wrong time. But overall it represents one of the greatest efforts from the community and it delivered hours and hours of fun for most people. It isn't Unreal's "fluff" but then again, it doesn't have to be. In my humble opinion, your enthusiasm would be better directed towards new projects; however, if you really feel strongly about this "retranslation" (as you most probably are), then I guess all I can say is it would be preferable if you could get some kind of approval from the original team leader DavidM (though I can see how this might be slightly irrelevant now that he and his fellow team mates have left the community), especially if you are going to get rid of cut-scenes and whatnot (rather than just adjusting some in-game texts).

By the way, the first time I played ONP I thought the introductory cinematic was great, and for all of ONP Guy's voice-acting faults, I thought the voice-acting in the outro was perfect. Getting rid of these would take away a lot of what made ONP the cool new experiment it was back in the day. And frankly it would alter it enough that it really shouldn't be done without the original authors' approval (DavidM but also eVOLVE in this particular case).

That said, I approve of the example you gave for how original translator messages could be "improved": you really make it sound more professional and believable, and I have nothing negative to say to that. But would adjustments to translator messages alone really be worth the effort today? And if there are more radical changes, then could one still refer to this as ONP, if none from the original team are involved? Wouldn't it just be better to move on to some new stuff?

I hope you don't take this message badly, you asked for opinions and as you can see I have a strong one :) I hope to see you contribute more stuff in the future.
Sincerely,
Sat42
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

UB_
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7960
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 13:55

I wonder, don't you need permission to re-release ONP with things altered?
I would support this. Just tried to go through the pack again only to find it cringeworthy and mediocre, more than I remember it to be.

Even then, many maps would stilll remain a chore to play with all the gameplay issues found left and right.
ImageImage

User avatar salsaSkaarj
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
Posts: 1862
Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 21:54
Location: on the prowl

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 17:21

TheInvalid wrote:...
Any thoughts? Would this sort of thing make ONP bearable to play?

First of all: I take it that the statement expresses your personal opinion, because I for one didn't find it unbearable at all!
Second : I agree with Sat42 's post
Third : I have nothing against the idea BUT (IMHO) it should be developed as an add-on or as amutator, e.g. using int files (in which case I suspect no permission is needed) or as a completely new set of files (different names but asking permission and giving credit would be compulsory). In both cases the original ONP can still be played. (BTW this would also allow the game issues (cfr. UBerserker) to be addressed.

radios
Skaarj Lord Skaarj Lord
Posts: 186
Joined: 25 May 2008, 18:58
Location: Long Island

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 23:17

it really should be redone no matter what. from the review.
THE VOICE ACTING IS DOWNRIGHT, UNBELEVIABLY HORRIBLE! The idea alone is great, it was done in Duke Nukem and set the mood perfect, but not so here. The player's voice is so....bad....I felt ashamed to be playing as him, infact It was embarassing to have him talk...knowing that I was playing as who was supposed to be talking. This really killed some effect of the game, If I was in a cool area I couldn't enjoy it if my guy suddently blurted out, "Oh man I need this place looks leet!" in this akwardly strange voice. (No offense to Chrome, the person responsible for the voice, it isn't your fault DavidM let you do it, Davey should be shot in the knees for that, not you). Another thing I have to complain about which really did it for me, and is the main reason this pack cannot live up to the feel of the original game, is the overabundance of ''Inside jokes''. There are just too many, MUCH MUCH too much jokes. If I feel down a pit I would see the bottom saying in Big letters, " PAH PAH PAH", why David thinks that is funny I don't know, perhaps that is a german thing. I thought it was a little too much when Every Mercenary in the Merc base had the name of a team member, comical though. Almost every map had a joke implanted, and if it's so obvious the makers didn't take the pack seriously, theres no way I could, the pack never intrigued me in a story-like sense. In Unreal,

User avatar salsaSkaarj
Gilded Claw Gilded Claw
Posts: 1862
Joined: 21 Apr 2009, 21:54
Location: on the prowl

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 23:29

radios wrote:it really should be redone no matter what. from the review.


As mentioned by others, the voice acting could have been better but many players don't let that spoil the fun, in fact some parts are hilarious and just fit the character. As for the inside jokes - some really made me smile.

Seriously, look at ONP's score ... it can't be all that bad. If someone wan't te redo it (and has permission), fine with me, but "it should be redone no matter what" seems a bit condescending if not rude :(

User avatar Sat42
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 865
Joined: 14 Jul 2013, 16:42
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 23:47

salsaSkaarj wrote:
radios wrote:it really should be redone no matter what. from the review.


As mentioned by others, the voice acting could have been better but many players don't let that spoil the fun, in fact some parts are hilarious and just fit the character. As for the inside jokes - some really made me smile.

Seriously, look at ONP's score ... it can't be all that bad. If someone wan't te redo it (and has permission), fine with me, but "it should be redone no matter what" seems a bit condescending if not rude :(


^ This. I have nothing to add ;) goodnight!
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

User avatar TheInvalid
Skaarj Scout Skaarj Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Dec 2011, 21:20
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 30 Jun 2014, 23:54

Heya, thanks for the responses. I sort of realised after I posted last night that what I'm working on is the sort of thing that would definitely need permission. So yeah, with Team Vortex having long since disbanded that makes things incredibly tricky. Honestly, I originally took my inspiration from the RTNP Ultimate Edition mod that was put out. But I realise there's a difference between modifying work that's covered under the original license, and other people's creative endeavours. Hmm.
salsaSkaarj wrote:I take it that the statement expresses your personal opinion, because I for one didn't find it unbearable at all!

Oh, don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore ONP as a campaign, at least from a level design perspective. I was sort of under the impression that it had a pretty poor standing in the community, mainly because of the cringey dialogue and abundance of "1337" jokes. But I also get that there's probably not a heck of a lot of call for this project.
Failing being able to get permission from DavidM / Team Vortex, I may just keep this as a 'pet project', and provide updates, video playthroughs and the like to at least showcase the work.
"Logic can convince but only emotion can motivate."

User avatar Mister_Prophet
Red Nemesis Leader Red Nemesis Leader
Posts: 3098
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 23:30
Location: Lost in Oraghar

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 01 Jul 2014, 02:44

If you consider the atmosphere at the time the pack was released people were critical of the tone represented in the campaign simply because it was so joke/gag heavy compared to the mother game. Despite this, the campaign was well received by the community then and is regarded fondly still. After the 10+ years since the pack was released any strong opinions people may have had about the voice acting and jokes have more or less subsided and people just accept ONP for what it is. Even the review posted on this site is quite old considering and remains favorable despite the criticisms represented in the text.

It is so great to see people enthusiastic about Unreal and community projects, it really is :). Glad to see you still around Invalid. I would have to agree with Sat and others, however, when it comes to tinkering with a community project. While people in the community have made extensions, reduxes, and reimaginings to Unreal and RTNP levels and these have generally been praised, it's sort of rare for people to try to make changes to old community levels. Exceptions are fixing a bug that made something unplayable in a level whose author has been absent from the community for a decade. Even though Team Vortex is defunct and DavidM only pops his head in once every Olympics, I don't think anyone really feels as if ONP needs to be "fixed" at this point. Even if DavidM would be okay with such an update (you can try and get in touch with him) I have to wonder if ONP would be any better if it was more serious. If there exists any lasting criticism for the campaign in the eyes of the player base, it's that ONP is a bit too easy for the average Unreal veteran. An attempt to make the pack more challenging might get more traction, pending you can secure permission to do so.

I don't mean to take the wind out of anyone's sails :) Really, I don't. I'm just of the mind that generating new content is soo much more valuable to our fragile little community in this day and age and you might find stronger feedback promoting a new map or helping one of the existing projects with finishing theirs. :tup:

User avatar [UDHQ]Jackrabbit
Skaarj Warrior Skaarj Warrior
Posts: 89
Joined: 02 Aug 2012, 07:38

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 01 Jul 2014, 03:22

Gonna agree with the others on this one. As much as ONP annoys me in general and as much as I think it has been granted false praise, I think your much better of either contributing to a current project or starting your own mapping project/mod. There's no fixing a broken horse. That may sound a bit condescending on my part, but frankly I don't really care. In alot of ways I feel ONP was just a compilation of really good talented mappers mixed with bad (fill in the blank).

User avatar ividyon
Administrator Administrator
Posts: 2354
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 14:43
Location: Germany
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 01 Jul 2014, 17:15

What you could do is dump the language strings from each map into .int files (there's a command for that somewhere), and then edit those.

This means that you can "re-translate" most in-game text like translator messages et cetera and fix various spelling mistakes & out-of-character writing without any effort. However, the most important thing is that anybody will be able to choose if they want the "original" ONP text or your replaced version... fully client-side! It won't cause server mismatches or conflicts, like full map edits would.

I'd recommend this to you as a light-weight version of your general idea. You won't be able to change anything in the maps, remove cutscenes or anything of the sort, but you can definitely provide everybody with higher-quality writing in various messages, NPC names and translator logs. I'd be very interested in that!

You technically won't be editing any existing Team Vortex content, either, but rather adding an optional bonus on top of it. That way you shouldn't really require permission either (though it never hurts to ask; at least DavidM should be available for comment)
UnrealSP.org webmaster & administrator

User avatar TheInvalid
Skaarj Scout Skaarj Scout
Posts: 22
Joined: 10 Dec 2011, 21:20
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 02 Jul 2014, 01:19

Thanks for that, Ividyon! Honestly, although I know a bit of mapping and how the engine 'works' in general terms, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how mutators/.ints actually function. I'll wait until I have something more concrete to actually show, as so far I've only really revised a couple of levels, but if anybody would be prepared to help me out with the necessary expertise to get such a thing working, I'd be hugely grateful.
"Logic can convince but only emotion can motivate."

User avatar Delacroix
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 873
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 17:22
Location: Poland.ut3

Subject: Re: [UT] - Operation Na Pali Retranslation

Post Posted: 04 Jul 2014, 21:23

Well... For your convenience here's a simple instruction.

Open up your map in UnrealEd, display the log window and in it type: DUMPINT FILENAME - where FILENAME is the name of your map. This will create a respective .int file in your System folder with all the map's text in. You can edit it to your heart's content and it'll patch the text ingame on the fly.

As far as the sounds/voices go, things are a bit more tricky - but even that may be solved quite admirably. Record your new lines, import them into the .uax file in question - make sure you make a backup first! Then copy both the backup and the new .uax file into System and run UCC.exe with the conform commandlet, like this:

UCC conform NEWFILE OLDFILE

This will make the new file network-compatible with the old file and thus anyone who replaces existing voice .uax'es with yours will be able to join the servers with the originals.

I can do an exact step by step picture tutorial for you if this is not enough.
Image
I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests

Copyright © 2001-2024 UnrealSP.org

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited