Birds fly. Sun shines. And brother? Brutes shoot people.

Daikatana etc (split from UT3 news thread)

For random rambling. Please keep your posts tasteful and respectful.

Moderators: ividyon, Semfry, zYnthetic

User avatar Turboman
Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
Posts: 440
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 16:18
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 20:19

UBerserker wrote:Remove your flamesuit, Turbo.

BioShock deserves nothing, honestly. It's a waste of money once you understand its horrible longevity, making that product the best rent you can ever get.

It's a SS2: IW with graphics.


*Flamesuit has expired*

well i agree on that there, the game had good atmosphere, but down to the freedom, choices, and gameplay it was way too linear, i was especially bothered by that stupid generic "good vs evil" thing going on which was especially apparant with those children vs the rest.

Mman wrote:The tens for BioShock were too high, but to put it even within a hundred miles of being as bad as Daikatana? You've got to be kidding.


maybe it was a little bit exxagerated ;)
but i still think it fits the shelf with daikatana better then Deus ex, which too many people have been comparing it to.

Teh sad thing about Bioshock is, i've been following quite a bit of the hype around it and i hate how people mention its better then system shock and deus ex, people that never even played both of those games, infact nobody (read: the majority!) cared about ss2 and dx when they came out. But now mentioning them makes you 1337.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
Red Nemesis Leader Red Nemesis Leader
Posts: 2896
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 23:30
Location: Long Island, New York

Subject:

Post Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 20:51

Bioshock was a good game, but it had no replay and was obscenely easy. And it was too short.
Image

User avatar Mick.B
Banned Banned
Posts: 227
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:48

Subject:

Post Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 22:15

Daikatana was at least challenging I think. I didn't play Bioshock so I cannot compare it.

User avatar Darkon
White Tusk White Tusk
Posts: 2211
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 15:11
Location: P46153

Subject:

Post Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 23:04

Didn't play Bioshock, but played 'some' Daikatana.. first episode (robotic.. eh.. japan?) and a few levels of the second (icy old scandinavia or so?) and got bored. There was no storyline imo (maybe I've missed it), but it's just.. go thru levels - get the 'key' (or whatever it was), beat the boss and you're ready for the next episode. Sorry, but I need more than that. :P
there's more

User avatar Hellscrag
Founder Founder
Posts: 3972
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 19:14
Location: In a random access memory of dreams

Subject:

Post Posted: 13 Dec 2007, 23:18

Darkon wrote:Didn't play Bioshock, but played 'some' Daikatana.. first episode (robotic.. eh.. japan?) and a few levels of the second (icy old scandinavia or so?) and got bored. There was no storyline imo (maybe I've missed it), but it's just.. go thru levels - get the 'key' (or whatever it was), beat the boss and you're ready for the next episode. Sorry, but I need more than that. :P


You missed out "restart the level because the absolutely idiotic sidekicks got themselves stuck somewhere and you can't exit the level unless they're right behind you".

The game was rubbish, but I like the music.
Image
Life is what you make of it.

User avatar Mick.B
Banned Banned
Posts: 227
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:48

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 00:25

That "icy" was not second episode, but third and there was a storyline, wtf. Or maybe you played that crappy demo which randomly threw at you levels and make it all super confusing?
And you need to have the game pacthed to have the sidekicks act a more intelligent, but I didn't mind waiting for them to continue the level as they are important part of storyline and at multiplayer they are playable characters and there are only two of them anyway so not big deal, but yeah they are annoying sometimes, especially with that slime gun they hurt more themselves and you than enemies (solution: Don't let them pick it up or for that part just order them to stay somewhere not around you).
Actually the storyline I found good for the time (I think you can easily switch cutscenes though and miss it) and there were RPG elements too (many players unable to find or not find at all, because the system was not easy to learn at a first playthrough).
There are some storyline twists too.
The demo actually had probably the worst levels too for some reason.

It may not be a super great game (many of the game ideas feel very unfinished), but it is not that bad game as it is being said IMO (being one of the most underrated games) and many people have same opinion, only they are hard to find here, but I found some people at Unreal community around who had same opinion.

I think some of the "jokes" at game were good too, like that McDonald parody where they used meat for hamburgers from dead bodies of coffins (the crematorium owned by same company was fake and the coffins didn't go to fire as the fire was only a fake effect and they continued lowering down on conveyor belt to the factory below where it was used as source for hamburgers).
EDIT: Some people didn't find the fact that by using the daikatana you can enhance the weapon, by killing enemies and it gets extra strong. If you kill and gib enemies by normal weapons it can increase in certain time your skills: "level up" appears, but you must use the special keys to choose which of the RPG ability you want to use.
And also that you can order sidekicks via its menu and that you can scroll down those menus etc.
Last edited by Mick.B on 14 Dec 2007, 01:28, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar GTD-Carthage
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 771
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:02
Location: In the place no hero calls home.
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 00:56

-Visc- wrote:The only game people would give a 10 is that one that offeres a blowjob.


HALO FANS :D :D :D :D

-Visc- wrote:Really, what else does a game have to do to get the magical ten? :?


Hey, I'd give UT99 a super-perfect ten for replayability and value. I think that my being here for several years now is living proof. Years ago, HL2, Q4, and UT2k4 come out. This year, Crysis, Halo 3, Bioshock etc. has come out. But I'm still playing UT99 regardless even after playing most of those other games. That's why its a ten (UT99). No idea in the case of UT3. UT3 is near-perfect IMHO but not entirely perfect.

Compared to even Orange Box, I'd say Totally Unreal was the most evenly-priced piece of software I've ever bought. Budget price + two legendary games in their GOTY/Gold forms = no arguments.

Note: I don't offer blowjobs. :?

User avatar Mick.B
Banned Banned
Posts: 227
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:48

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 01:45

I agree with Carthage.
Anyway for those which say there is no story in DK here is the video(spolier warning) , please ignore the character anims, they are poorly done in this intro as the team was poor at end and they didn't include facial anims, etc, but I think the story is good enough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oJ9emjLP08

User avatar Turboman
Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
Posts: 440
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 16:18
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 02:03

Hellscrag wrote:You missed out "restart the level because the absolutely idiotic sidekicks got themselves stuck somewhere and you can't exit the level unless they're right behind you".

The game was rubbish, but I like the music.


"I can't leave without my buddy superfly" :lol:
Not only was the ai completely counter-productive, but in the later levels they were unpossible to handle, i remember getting stuck in the final level because they would simply run onto the dangerous elevator/monorail tracks and die there.
save gems made this impossibly annoying, although i can't really complain because they removed them later on.

User avatar Mick.B
Banned Banned
Posts: 227
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:48

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 02:14

http://www.generation5.org/content/2001 ... ana_pc.asp

Found some review which isn't that negative and is positive, although it is based on the release version of the game where more of the sidekick bugs were present and where savegems were not turnable off (I never played game with savegems on, only a bit of first level, then I disabled it).

There is also one bug which makes you not complete a level when you save, it is only one map though, the wyndrax tower part 2, you have to complete that level one run through or it gets stuck with the boss battle.

User avatar Darkon
White Tusk White Tusk
Posts: 2211
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 15:11
Location: P46153

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 20:59

Mick.B wrote:That "icy" was not second episode, but third ....


You're right. I just looked up some vids on youtube.. and the second episode was Greece. Funny to see the vids.. some of it reminds me of Unreal... :P
there's more

User avatar GTD-Carthage
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 771
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 22:02
Location: In the place no hero calls home.
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 22:21

Never played Daikatana but I do know it became too old for its time. John Romero and that Ion Storm incident, I know a few things about it. The game's "[...] is gonna make you his bitch." ad sparked some considerable controversy as well. (Had negative impact on the customers.) By the time the game was released, a dozen of other games already had better advancements in graphics and gameplay.

User avatar Turboman
Skaarj Berserker Skaarj Berserker
Posts: 440
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 16:18
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 22:48

i believe the biggest controversy about dk was the fact that john romero blew all his budget away on his wannabe-game-designer-rockstar imago, he craved for publicity in any way, thinking his product will be a succes no matter wat.
The ad is an example of this, it came around the time that they had nothing decent to show about the game itself.
Iirc there was also another ad running for DK, it wen't like "Unreal.... or REAL!!!" which also shows how badly over the top romero went with things.

User avatar Frieza
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 917
Joined: 16 Nov 2007, 15:05

Subject:

Post Posted: 14 Dec 2007, 23:09

I tried out the demo of Daikatana on two occasions and came to the conclusion that the game is unplayable and just totally not fun in any way. And it looked very unattractive (even at the time it came out).

User avatar Semfry
Trustee Member Trustee Member
Posts: 2038
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 02:43
Location: UK
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 15 Dec 2007, 04:00

Someone actually defended Daikatana? It's not just a victim of hype, removing that it's still fully deserving of infamy on its own "merits". It's one of the worst games I've ever played. Rant time!

For a start, loading crashed the game and randomly corrupted saves so much that it appears to be literally impossible to complete without the patch (and, of course, I came across some irritating issues while trying to install said patch :rolleyes: ). I made it to about level 6 (as in areas, not load spots) before having to restart again as I couldn't get past a load spot whatever I did. Even with the patch there were periodic crashes, although corruption was thankfully a thing of the past (and save crystals, thank god).

Next, the weapons, I'd go as far as to say it has the worst set of weapons I've ever seen in an FPS. Each chapter has only about 1-2 useful weapons at the most (with emphasis on that last part), and about three quarters of the weapons either do self-damage, or are outright suicidal (no, really). Even the "good" (E.G. the ones that shoot somewhat straight and don't kill you) weapons are terrible by the standards of any decent FPS.

Enemies are just as bad, take your pick; you get ones that are annoyingly small and fast, hitscan cheapness, or mediocrity defined. And that's without going into the fact that most of them don't even make sense; why the hell is Greece infested with mythical creatures? And why the hell is a time-controlling warlord guarding his fortress with a swamp full of robofrogs and roboflies? It's not even nonsensical in an awesome way.

Daikatana is THE poster child of quantity != quality

I found episodes 2 and 3 tolerable for the most part, but Episode 1 and 4 have some of the worst level design I've seen in a "professional" game, they're totally mundane (although Ep 4 had its moments), full of dumb gimmicks and cheap ambushes and design. Mishima's Lab in Ep 4 sticks out as possibly the worst "pro" FPS experience I've ever had.

The sidekick AI pretty much goes without saying, awful, awful, AWFUL. The irritating thing is that they would be tolerable if you didn't have to drag them to each load spot, but this is Daikatana, so of course you don't get some simple mercy like having them "teleport" at a load if you leave them behind. You can play through the game in Coop to avoid this, but then you don't get to "enjoy" the story.

The level up system is about as predictable as it gets, are power and attack speed the only truly worthwhile stats? If you said yes you'd be right (although vitality can be useful). Speed and jumping hinder more than help at higher levels.

The "story", well, someone summed it up as "anime fanfic" and I can't think of a better description than that (with added racial stereotypes). It's basically John masturbating over the page without any actual thought into how it comes together (it's full of gaping plot-holes and idiotic characters).

Oh wait, all this is excused because Daikatana is an Expert FPS for Hardcore players (yes, apparently John really said this) so you bitches are just going to have to suck it down :rolleyes: .

All this is without going into the fact it came out in 2000, when, 2-3 years ago, both Unreal and Half-Life had bettered it in almost every way.

I thought Daikatana might have been somewhat maligned by the hype and other factors (which is why I wanted to give it a chance), but, in this case, I was horribly wrong. In a way though, seeing how badly design can fail is pretty helpful.
Last edited by Semfry on 15 Dec 2007, 18:52, edited 2 times in total.

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests