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[split] Much Ado about Illhaven

For random rambling. Please keep your posts tasteful and respectful.

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Kew
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Subject: [split] Much Ado about Illhaven

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 04:29

sana: This was split from the discussion thread for the Illhaven 2012 project found here. Drama was had.

I received this private communication from Pcube through this website a few minutes ago. Since it is totally offensive and you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it, I am going to quote it verbatim here. I quote:


Dear Kew,

Rest assured that I am certain that you are a complete waste of space. You are a fucking piece of worthless shit. Hopefully, you get hit by a garbage truck and then promptly collected (for obvious reasons), because you are the epitome of worthless fucks known to mankind.

You are a fucking worthless son of a bitch and I'm sure that your parents are proud to have raised such an imbecile. Fuck your shitty map pack. I have seen better map packs at a sewage refinery plant (you know, that thing near your house). By the way, you are a complete piece of shit.

Sincerely,

Fuck you.

_________________
Coder/Mapper for the UDHQ Development Team

There you have it. I will not put up with this. Not only is this man rude to me but now to my parents, one of whom is dead.

I am leaving now and will not return here.

Kew

Kew
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 04:37

Sana,

I cannot figure out how to do it, but please remove/de-register my membership on this site now. I did send you an e-mail so you will understand.

User avatar Pcube
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 08:07

You are attempting to use me as a scapegoat for your obviously clear intent to leave. That is complete BS.

I received a PM detailing exactly what you said earlier. I will leave it to the reader to surmount whether or not Kew was going to leave this community of "wreckers" anyways.

Quote:
Well, despite the deafening silence, the beta will be released tomorrow, June 01, as promised. With the exception of a few forum members (and I thank Sana particularly for his courtesy throughout), I have not enjoyed my stay at unrealsp. In fact, I very nearly left when the thread got out of hand. But with the release, I will leave this forum. I fully expect that my maps will be slammed by the wrecking crew here because it is now obvious that we are not on the same page. I am past caring and only encouraged by close to 3000 hits on the thread in the last month. I only hope there is a silent majority somewhere that appreciate this genre.

I know I will not get any good reviews here on sp. After all, in the face of favourable reviews elsewhere, Prophet gave the original a miserable 57%. PCGamer obviously disagreed:

http://planetunreal.gamespy.com/fullstory.php?id=136901

I was appalled to read the thrashing Prophet gave my good friend Simon West-Bulford for his Legacy production, one of the truly great mappers in Unreal.

And so I will leave here tomorrow. I do thank and appreciate all those here who treated me fairly. I wanted no more than that.


Kew


I am sure that I am the reason you are leaving. Right. I would not have bothered posting in your thread but I would rather defend myself against being made "public enemy" for something you were already intent on doing. Trying to bring others to "go down with the ship" with you on your decision is not honorable.
Coder/Mapper for the UDHQ Development Team

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UBerserker
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 10:12

The Unreal community has people which makes it completely fucking garbage, even in comparison to Xbox microphone spammers. Makes sense to me that Kew wants to leave it.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 10:42

I don't know when this thread went south so badly, or why. Some oversensitivity mixed with a few really nasty posts have marred what should have been a hearty reception. If there was a site and a forum meant to receive the news that Illhaven's original author was returning to enhance what many consider a classic mappack, it should have been UnrealSP.org. Obviously in this case it was not.

This thread is clearly a loss. In more ways than one.

Kew, for the site's part (as a member who has been here for over a decade) I can tell you that whether or not you feel appreciated, your work has been championed here by countless individuals over the years along with all the other singleplayer levels we've had the honor of hosting for Unreal and UT for. All of which, I might add, are evaluated by player scrutiny...but this does not diminish how much they have been played, on their own and in the many coop sessions that have and will continue to take place. There has been perhaps more celebration for Illhaven posted on these forums than most anywhere else I can think of within this community. All I'd ask at this point is to take the above into consideration above all else and try to wear thicker skin given the circumstances. A few negative posts in a thread made over a decade after the fact does not overwrite the care this community and its founders have given to safeguard your mappack.
Last edited by Mister_Prophet on 01 Jun 2012, 10:46, edited 2 times in total.
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User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 10:44

Seriously, can someone BAN PCube?!
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NaPaliShore
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 10:47

Pcube quotes Kew as writing:
Well, despite the deafening silence, the beta will be released tomorrow, June 01, as promised. ... I only hope there is a silent majority somewhere that appreciate this genre.


I don't know if it's appropriate to comment on a private PM that was requoted to the group, but as one of the "silent majority" I have to say that I have been looking forward to the beta release of the remastered/expanded Illhaven since it was first announced. The main reason why I haven't written in to the forum beforehand about my enthusiasm for the upcoming release is that Unreal SP is the only video game I play these days, and I'm so "hungry" for new SP content that I hate to get my hopes up too much - having seen so many forum announcements about maps or packs that are "about to be released" which then get delayed over and over again and in some cases never come out. Unlike many of those "letdown" experiences, Kew's speedy progress from project announcement towards actual release has been a refreshing departure from the norm, and I'm definitely excited about tomorrow's release - have even planned part of my weekend around it. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of people who, like me, are just waiting until the *actual* release of the pack, and having a chance to try it out, before writing in to express their appreciation. (I expect the "silent majority" will likely become much less silent after the pack is released!) Also, there are some people who probably read these forums every day, and others who only check in every couple of weeks, so not everyone will have seen the announcement about the June 1 beta release of the new Illhaven yet. And some of those who are aware of the announced release date may, like me, be waiting with baited breath for the release, sustaining a mood of "cautious optimism" while also being prepared for the possibility of unexpected delays or setbacks... I guess what I'm saying is that I've been almost superstitious about writing in to say how excited I am that the pack will be released so soon, because of not wanting to "jinx" it...

In the mean time, while waiting for the release to happen, I have to say I've been really disappointed by the inexplicable degree of negativity that has surfaced in this thread, where from the outside it seems like a few ill chosen words here or there have been met with overreactions, eventually escalating into inappropriate personal attacks. It's all kind of disheartening to see happening in the space that I associate with being a "haven" (pun partially intended) for fun and enjoyment in my life, and an escape from some of the other "less fun" aspects of my week.

So I hope the general mood will turn from slightly sour to joyful in the near future, with a successful release and spirited but fair discussion of the merits of the pack, with everyone keeping in mind that this is all supposed to be fun! :)

User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 11:16

After a quick confirmation that Pcube indeed wrote that PM, all I can say is that he has long overstayed his welcome here and I'm glad to have received definite evidence of his trademark douchebaggery on USP. People whose feeble minds conjure up unfunny, completely idiotic troll tripe like this, and even stoop as low as to insult and harass people via PM, simply don't belong here. Please remain in other Unreal communities you frequent and stay away from this one, Pcube. Farewell!

And here's a reminder for everybody that I have extremely low bullshit tolerance, and I am far less lenient and way more spontaneous with punishment decisions than the previous administration! Take care. Image
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User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 11:39

Since Kew's original post has again been re-posted (the internet does not forget), I might as well comment on it now:

Take it easy. The thing you describe as "deafening silence" is simply UnrealSP's normal level of activity. If you observe the threads in our 10th Anniversary Speedmapping Contest, you will note that, despite the contest being a period of very high activity, none of the threads have as many posts as Illhaven's does. It is silly to think that this low activity means that people are not interested in your project. Unreal's community no longer booms like it may have at Illhaven's original release, and the majority of Unreal's user base is made up of forum lurkers and online players rather than active forum posters.

Second, a large majority has expressed interest and excitement regarding the new Illhaven announcement. The few voices of criticism I noticed came from misunderstanding of your writing style. It happens. You regard the community as much more aggressive than it is, and Pcube's braindead PM should not be seen as representative of the general mood at UnrealSP (which I would actually describe as rather gentle and relaxed - although I must admit that lately, drama has been happening much more than I would like).

Third, you must not expect UnrealSP's review scoring system to work like these in mainstream gaming magazines, where anything below 8 means "bad". 57% is a very decent score for a map pack as old as Illhaven, and the standard of the new scoring system is set by much newer, larger, more polished productions created by large groups of people. In my opinion, Illhaven's review score is not a reason to be upset at all. And again, as Mister Prophet said himself, he is happy to discuss his review and to explain his reasoning to you.

Things are not that much of a big deal, really, and everybody should just chill out already. :/
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User avatar Semfry
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 12:50

I missed the post of PCubes PM in this thread, what the fucking hell? Although I guess it doesn't matter now they're banned.

sana wrote:Third, you must not expect UnrealSP's review scoring system to work like these in mainstream gaming magazines, where anything below 8 means "bad". 57% is a very decent score for a map pack as old as Illhaven, and the standard of the new scoring system is set by much newer, larger, more polished productions created by large groups of people. In my opinion, Illhaven's review score is not a reason to be upset at all. And again, as Mister Prophet said himself, he is happy to discuss his review and to explain his reasoning to you.


Based on that post I'll just reiterate this too, UnrealSP uses the full scale and does not run off the 7-10 number system used in standard "games journalism".
Formerly Mman

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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 13:03

Mman -- bottom post @ page 8.
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 13:13

I meant that I missed it when it was originally posted. I admit that I didn't phrase that well though.
Formerly Mman

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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 14:26

Well, this thread sure went sour :/ I think Proph's comments mirror my own thoughts fairly well, so I won't reiterate all that. Definitely a case of misunderstanding and miscommunication snowballing into something much worse. That said...

sana wrote:People whose feeble minds conjure up unfunny, completely idiotic troll tripe like this


To be fair, both of those examples happened a long time ago, and as the "target" of the latter, I mostly just found that video incredibly hilarious at the time as you can see in the comments (and still do, whatever its initial intentions may have been). People change, and while it's only fair to take someone's prior history into consideration, the past should be weighed less than current behavior when making decisions like these. After all, I used to be an insufferable prick on the internet, but then I grew as a person. Now I just try to help people, but I still fuck up here and there. I don't think I'd appreciate having examples of my earlier immaturity dredged up from years ago to be used as a measurement of my current character.

So while yes, PCube's PM was in incredibly poor taste regardless of whether or not Kew "deserved" it, and while he has pulled stunts before, I think his ban should be temporary. After all, he's been very helpful with UScript and technical feedback for myself and others, and we don't exactly have a lot of UScript knowledge here. I'm not saying that having a niche skill set makes you immune to the rules, but it is something to consider.

Let all this drama blow over, then see what happens I guess is what I'd do.
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User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 15:04

I'm sorry, but I disagree. For example, another banned person - Leo. His ban is not temporary and he didn't send ludicrous FUCKYOU private messages to people at will. And his skills of content recovery and its further remastering are even more niche than UnrealScript skill. I think PCube should remain banned. His particular... condition, so to speak (I am not in the liberty to say what condition this is) causes him to erupt at random without any real reason and no-one here should be forced to risk of exposure to such treatment.
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I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Subject: Re: Illhaven Remastered and Expanded by Kew

Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012, 15:16

Delacroix wrote:I'm sorry, but I disagree. For example, another banned person - Leo. His ban is not temporary and he didn't send ludicrous FUCKYOU private messages to people at will. And his skills of content recovery and its further remastering are even more niche than UnrealScript skill. I think PCube should remain banned. His particular... condition, so to speak (I am not in the liberty to say what condition this is) causes him to erupt at random without any real reason and no-one here should be forced to risk of exposure to such treatment.


Fair point, but the difference here is that Leo was near-constantly hostile to everyone here almost all the time, almost immediately after he was permitted to return, and this happened at least twice, i.e. he was later given a second chance, and he blew it. Sadly, I don't think Leo is capable of coexisting peacefully with certain people (or any people?) here for whatever reason(s).

PCube seems a bit more reasonable and might be able to chill out after taking some time off. But I do think that, for any member, blowing a second chance = the end.

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to. What happens next is not my call!
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