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Steam livingroom Announcements

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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 16:31

I for one didn't realize how truly mediocre Windows actually is as an OS until I finally got a Galaxy S4 running Android, so I'm all for more specialized OSs in the future, especially if they have built-in virtualization to run old Windows games. Knowing Valve, this will probably be a really slick product, ESPECIALLY compared to the trainwrecks Microsoft has caused lately (Windows 8, holy christ what a pile of trash). I don't have much faith Windows 9 will even be that great at this point, either. Not unless they basically redo Windows 7 with a bunch of new enhancements. Maybe now that Ballmer got sacked things will improve, but I'm not holding my breath. Bring on the new era of tailor-made gaming software, I say.
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 19:04

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User avatar ebd
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 19:05

Delacroix wrote:Corrected. Example? Any goddamn disc-based-protected game that is distributed over Steam has this shit removed, be it SafeDisc, SecuROM or StarForce. In multiple times (not always, BioShock 2 being an unfortunate exception), third party DRM for online authentication is removed, the product relying on Steam's own DRM instead. As Steam does not run any mysterious drivers in the background unlike SecuROM or StarForce often do, well... Need I say more?

also indie devs

If you read the very next sentence of the post you quoted you'll find my opinion on Steam's DRM.

Also the points I was making to redeye are that there are alternatives. If you as a consumer value the Steam infrastructure and services it provides so much that you would prefer 30% of it go to Steam, that is alright. There is no denying that Steam offers quite a lot of services.

As it happens, despite Steam taking 30%, Steam can be a boon for indie developers too, especially due to sales. If you are curious, give the Dustforce sales figures a read.

Also
http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/ wrote:Entertainment is not a one-size-fits-all world. We want you to be able to choose the hardware that makes sense for you, so we are working with multiple partners to bring a variety of Steam gaming machines to market during 2014, all of them running SteamOS.
A neat announcement, but people were speculating this since rumors of a "steambox" first began. I'm really curious as to what Valve's own device will look like and what their third announcement will be (Maybe Source 2 as Gizzy predicted?).

redeye
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 19:33

Well the 3 games I do have asscociated with steam do work, and if they can make my old games work, like Quake1 on 64 bit win7 would them make it WORTH having steam.

Beyond that still don't like the whole idea of being trapped, what if you have no paypal, or credit cards, ay ?
what if you buy a useless CD at the store all because you don't have the internet, why buy it ?

I have zero like for console anything, I could care less about the size of the pictures, I run a CRT at 1024.

I also can't stand those safedisc type of things, more or less a virus, that once again windows won't let you see files installed in "system" all because windows is running, I want to see what is on my system, just more overlord corporation BS.
But if they can make it useful and bypass windows OS, would make things worth being a slave.
Just ban everyone

User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 20:00

ebd wrote:If you read the very next sentence of the post you quoted you'll find my opinion on Steam's DRM.


And I fully agree with it.

ebd wrote:Also the points I was making to redeye are that there are alternatives. If you as a consumer value the Steam infrastructure and services it provides so much that you would prefer 30% of it go to Steam, that is alright. There is no denying that Steam offers quite a lot of services.


Precisely what I am -- and these services make me more and more attached to it.

ebd wrote:As it happens, despite Steam taking 30%, Steam can be a boon for indie developers too, especially due to sales. If you are curious, give the Dustforce sales figures a read.


I've read it and yes, it does make you stop for a thought. And the results of me thinking are a tad grim.


redeye wrote:Well the 3 games I do have asscociated with steam do work, and if they can make my old games work, like Quake1 on 64 bit win7 would them make it WORTH having steam.


Yeah, there was a problem IIRC with The Guild, or The Guild 2? IDR. One of the two. They didn't mention that it has problems with newer OSes so they either took it down or added such a mention in the description, don't remember now. Now, they're wiser about these kinds of things. And yeah, there's plenty classic games on Steam nowadays, and they run well on recent OSes.

redeye wrote:Beyond that still don't like the whole idea of being trapped, what if you have no paypal, or credit cards, ay ?
what if you buy a useless CD at the store all because you don't have the internet, why buy it ?


Yeah, the fact that you have to go to pretty great lengths to use cash in online purchases is one of the downsides of digitalization of everything. At the moment, you need to go to a cybercafe and see if they can purchase stuff for you. Sucks in all online purchases, but well... Nowadays you can find yourself a bank that doesn't require regular income, nor does it take a fee for you just owning the account there and you're all set. For example, in Poland there's mBank: they don't charge you for just having an account in their bank nor do they require you to have a job or anything like that to create such an account. A few minutes of filling out forms and you're on: just transfer the cash to the account in one of their facilities and you're good to go with your shiny VISA.

As for the CD question: it's not that useless if you have a slower internet. Steam does allow you to use CDs during installation and then merely updates the game to the latest version! So, instead of downloading like 16 GB in case of Aliens vs Predator, I'd need to download only 2 GB (because of the DLCs). However, I once spotted FEAR 2 for a real bargain bin price at a store. As you might know, it's a Steam-tied game. It cost me like five bucks, literally. Well, only one DVD was recognized by the reader, so you could say it was a faulty copy. Instead of running back to the store though, I muttered *fuck it* and just activated the key and downloaded the game. :D With a non-Steamworks game, I wouldn't have had that option. I'd have to go to the store to get a replacement. Or if they wouldn't be able to, to the publisher. And due to Steamworks, I had this torture spared from me... I just typed in the key where due and the game got added to the library. Neat, isn't it?

redeye wrote:I have zero like for console anything, I could care less about the size of the pictures, I run a CRT at 1024.


You may have zero like to console anything, but I don't - it's a different playstyle, yeah, but I was raised with a NES pad in hand :P And then got meself a CD32 which I later converted to a real Amiga and thus had an actual first computer. I love both the puters and consoles, it's about different experiences that both are enjoyable. Steam now attempts to merge it. Play PC-style on Windows/Linux/Mac, play like on console thanks to SteamBox with SteamOS. There's probably more options too.

redeye wrote:But if they can make it useful and bypass windows OS, would make things worth being a slave.

They actually are. By creating a Linux-based OS they'll promote linux more to game devs. Despite all the way it has come during its development, Linux still isn't an optimal gamer's choice, ESPECIALLY in the case of older titles which have difficulty running on recent Windows iterations, let alone Wine or native Linux. I recently had a serious quarrel with OtherMother about Linux, I'd love to see the Tux updated in a way so that I don't have to be a Windows supporter anymore.
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redeye
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 25 Sep 2013, 21:32

I stopped at Sega genisis CD, racked up mega bucks on my credit card. So when I own the machine that makes the games for a console I am not ever going back to a console and those super high prices they want for one new game.

I go back to an 8k radio shack waaaay back LoL doing the same thing, stayed up late programing in BASIC for about a week until my brother brought it to the store they had selling waterbeds. But I have Ti99 4a, Atari 800XL, radio shack color computer II then I got a NES, SNES, Sega, then sega CD

THEN dun dun dun, an awesome 386 intel machine, never looked back at consoles.
Just ban everyone

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 01:59

ividyon wrote:In addition, people don't realize that, by now, Steam's offline mode actually works despite its hiccups in the past. Once you have installed and launched your games at least once, you can run them in the offline mode even if you're cut off from the net. Steam just works.


I was about to come in and offer my standard five cent story about how offline mode is totally broken and I've been permanently violated by steam as a result (unable to play any steam based games for an entire year due to not having internet at home. Leaves an extremely salty taste in the mouth) but then I read this. Will have to give it a fair go and revise my opinion on that front.

Although I'm still not a fan of having to activate single player games online in order to play them.

Also contrary to most other people, I actually find steam to be extremely intrusive and obnoxious. I'm not an online gamer, so I don't give a toss about the friendlists and chat functions and all that jazz. I find it incredibly annoying to load up steam and have my face blasted by adverts for games I have no interest in and I'd rather not find out about. Because I've wasted enough of my life on video games already, and I'd rather not get sucked into more. *
I hate having steam running in the background all the time. I just want to load up unreal or half life and play it, and when I'm done have my RAM cleared of all gaming related stuff. I like to double click on my games shortcut and have that and that alone load. Please no third party gaming platform loading with it.

Yes securom and other more heavy hitting DRM systems are far far worse (I will never install a game which is bundled with that bullshit), but that doesn't suddenly make steam good. It might not be as malevolent, but it's still annoying DRM in my book.

(all of the above is a fairly uninformed opinion, as I try to avoid steam wherever possible and so haven't been paying attention to how it has improved other the past few years)

At the same time I have great respect for Valve and what they have done with steam. Steamos is a MASSIVE step in the right direction.

*[spoiler]I only really play the Unreal series now, and even my interest in that has been slowly fading over the years and I'm perfectly ok with that. I only really game now at LAN parties: Anything else feels ultimately unfulfilling and I'm obviously only doing it out of habit; only doing it to feed a dying addiction that has carried over from my teenage years.

There is a whole real world out there which is even more fun and fufilling to explore than any video game can ever hope to be, as long as you can get your mind straight. There are people to connect with eye to eye, philosophies to consider, history, cultures and religions to learn about and be immersed in, mountains to climb, programs to write, waves to surf, locks to pick, balls to juggle etc etc etc. My time spent on games has largely been a total waste when I consider the alternative. A few exceptions of course, for example SM64, LoZ:OOT and LoZ:MM were like fairytales which I held close to my heart. They shaped and defined my childhood. I don't regret the time I spent on those things, but I would be hesitant to go back and play them all through yet again. It's time to grow up! :) (I'm in two minds about whether or not the unreal series has had any positive influence on me, I've definitely poured more hours into it than any other activity in my life.)

I guess I can honestly thank Steam for making gaming so personally inconvenient for me. It makes me less inclined to pick up new games and lets my old ones die gracefully and that truly makes me happy \o/[/spoiler]
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redeye
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 02:40

All good points, I also don't do the chat and things, that last game I downloaded was crap all over the screen, just too much.
I also wasted much time but the redeeming factor IS the editor it has just about everything to learn for the computer era. You have programming, code, sound, music, texture manipulation, internal chat, networking, game level building strategy, menus,.UT is like a whole OS of within itself.
Now modeling, and importing, skins, animations, Unreal or UT is quite the thing, a good waste of time anyway.
Just ban everyone

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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 12:22

TheIronKnuckle wrote:I find it incredibly annoying to load up steam and have my face blasted by adverts for games I have no interest in and I'd rather not find out about. Because I've wasted enough of my life on video games already, and I'd rather not get sucked into more.

The Interface settings allow you to 1) toggle off the checkbox that says "notify me about additions, changes or releases", removing those pop-ups, and 2) change the "favorite window" that opens when you boot up the program, allowing you to change it from the Store front to your game library or minimalistic Friends display.

TheIronKnuckle wrote:I hate having steam running in the background all the time. I just want to load up unreal or half life and play it, and when I'm done have my RAM cleared of all gaming related stuff. I like to double click on my games shortcut and have that and that alone load. Please no third party gaming platform loading with it.

You may understand that others do not share this issue, as Steam's resource consumption very minimally impacts their computers. Same goes for the social features you dislike, which I, for example, use heavily to have good players to play with.

But other than that, good points, especially the "makes me want to play games less" bit. I wish I could escape my addiction like that, too! :P
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:10

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroo ... ontroller/

The final announcement.
It's hackable.
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:44

That controller seems like quite the gamble. I can certainly imagine some developers might have some interesting control schemes with that, but I also imagine most will not. I especially wonder if/when Valve's next titles are announced how they will feature this controller, since Valve's games aren't known for controller friendliness (though some more than others. Good luck playing Dota 2 on a controller)

The big risk is of course in how different it is. In the past developers (or more precisely the publishers who fund them, whose interest lies in mitigating risk) haven't been very welcoming of vastly different hardware. I'm sure they will want their dual joysticks, directional pad and four buttons, just like what PS4/PS3/PS2/PS/XBox/XBox360/XBone/GameCube has.

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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 30 Sep 2013, 04:45

Haven't yet fully read the announcement. But have been on other sites reporting on the announcements etc. From what little I've read, I think it could work. This isn't like going straight to a touchscreen, or a single trackpad. The fact that there's two will probably make it fairly effective at games like timesplitters, halo etc. I predict even Unreal would be decently playable. Of course, this doesn't stand a chance of dethroning mouselook for fps and rts.

edit: I've read a bit through the announcement and I'm genuinely curious. Which for me is super rare. Whenever there are tech announcements I generally scoff and am skeptical and return to my trustworthy xp box, n64, ps2 and nokia 3315. New iphones can't come close to my indestructible nokia, and there is no app out there that could convince me to give up genuine snake 2 :lol: New consoles seem unnecessarily complicated, OS updates rarely interest me.

but this has caught my attention. A handheld controller that aims to be as precise as a keyboard/mouse combo. From what I've read so far I'm still skeptical but I'm not going to walk out on this without giving it a chance. Valve are perfectionists and they aren't going to release something half baked. The proof will be in the eating: If it's possible to comfortably bounce around deck 16 while using a rifle to pop off all the heads with this controller... I might just consider moving back in front of a TV :p
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UB_
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 30 Sep 2013, 10:19

First tests with the controller have been positive, though there's still work to do. It's very responsive and precise. Also, trackpads have feedback - that's a first, as far as I know.
Thing is, this "hacking possibility" (for both the controller and OS) may be one hell of a selling point.
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UB_
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 26 Nov 2013, 16:13

iBuyPower showed off a prototype for its first Steam Machine, which will be out next year for $499. The sexy white box will have a multicore AMD CPU, an AMD Radeon R9 270 graphics card, a 500GB hard drive, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, SteamOS, and a Steam Controller.

Don't run at me with torches ablaze, but it looks like this early Steam Machine will outperform the new consoles, at least from a raw power perspective. TFLOPS is a way to calculate how fast a computer is, and according to Anandtech the PlayStation 4 has 1.84 TFLOPS, the Xbox One has 1.23 TFLOPS, and The Tech Report has the R9 270, a $180 GPU, at 2.4 TFLOPS. With similar AMD multicore CPUs, the edge will go to the system with the better graphic processing and speed.

This is a lower price with better hardware than most people were expecting. Valve's own prototypes are all above this price point, so it's nice to see that the first third-party system will be very affordable. We'll learn more about the hardware of this box, and other Steam Machines, at CES in January.

iBuyPower's Steam Machine offers PC specs for the price of a new Xbox [The Verge]


Hmmmm able to run games at 1080p+60fps
Since it can also be upgraded/hacked as will...
Isn't the R9 270 better than a 7870?
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Subject: Re: Steam livingroom Announcements

Post Posted: 27 Nov 2013, 13:30

UBerserker wrote:Isn't the R9 270 better than a 7870?


AMD's Linux drivers are notoriously shitty, so GeForce seems like an obvious choice in this context.

500€ for a tiny, portable, but powerful PC seems like a fair price to me, although people will undeniably whine about it being more expensive than the PS quadruple / Xbone, despite the fact a PC offers /so much more/. Meh.
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